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Mon, 05 Oct 2026 07:50:11 -0700 (PDT) List-Id: User questions List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-questions List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: List-Owner: Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Erichans Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2026 16:50:00 +0200 X-Gm-Features: AclHuK_VXMzsAmmMkQ6ub7gOlJnG6Nd7G4cyRfQxO0QsRMAhKRkM9VzmaVIuSNs Message-ID: Subject: Re: CVEs not propagated from ports tree to FreeBSD package servers - FreeBSD policy? To: "Edward Sanford Sutton, III" Cc: questions@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spamd-Bar: - X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.00 / 15.00]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ARC_ALLOW(-1.00)[google.com:s=arc-20260327:i=1]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20251104]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a00:1450:4864::/56]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MISSING_XM_UA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROMTLD(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[hotmail.com]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2a00:1450:4864:38::4:from]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[questions@freebsd.org]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[questions@freebsd.org]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4hz2P90lBzz3LhP Thank you for responding. On Mon, Oct 5, 2026 at 12:58=E2=80=AFAM Edward Sanford Sutton, III wrote: > > On 10/2/26 05:02, Erichans wrote: > > Hi, > > > > What is the policy of the FreeBSD project regarding > > the propagation of CVE mitigations from the ports tree to > > the FreeBSD package servers? > > To clarify, are you asking about packages for the kmods package > repository? Yes, that is correct. >Once a port is updated in a ports tree it will impact > packages that form from that tree but the kmods repo does build on a > different cycle than the main packages. > When users don't use the kmods repo they get the main build sequence > but that causes issues for kernel modules as the main package repos > build everything against 15.0 until its not supported and then will > finally switch to 15.1. Most packages are fine with this while kmods are > most likely to become incompatible which becomes particularly common for > the modules using the Linux abi/kpi. 15.1-RELEASE users that use the FreeBSD package servers and need a package matching their kernel only have access to: FreeBSD-ports-kmods emulators/virtualbox-ose-kmod-72 virtualbox-ose-kmod-72 7.2.8.1501000 According to a commit of 2026-06-17, that version already had several CVE related issues: emulators/virtualbox-ose{,-additions,-kmod}-72: Update 7.2.8 =3D> 7.2.10 (1= 0 CVEs) https://cgit.freebsd.org/ports/commit/emulators/virtualbox-ose-kmod-72?id= =3Dbbd7ab52a8a20722c901b3e4950cbb7e2b52581c To emphasize, users of release versions have their kmods repo enabled by default for quarterly (for which the package is still not available: [1] ). Optionally, they can switch to latest. I am not aware of any FreeBSD advice, CVE related or otherwise, that encourages or explicitly directs users to disable their kmods repo. > I'm not sure why kmods receive an order to be built that is separate > from when the main packages do but ordering the kmods builds happen from > the same ports tree commit as the main build packages are made from and > then release them at the same time seems like a more reliable solution > albeit with a little bit more work for the builders. Hence my questions concerning the CVE mitigations. > > > Regarding a specific example, the commit > > "emulators/virtualbox-ose-*72: Update 7.2.16 =3D> 7.2.18 (19 CVEs)": > > https://cgit.freebsd.org/ports/commit/emulators/virtualbox-ose-kmod-72?= id=3D13ab7c594392a69c355c4e6d38491587b9a39d7c > > was not propagated to the FreeBSD-ports-kmods repository. > > Why? > > > > This means packages with these CVE mitigations were not > > made available to users of: > > - 15.1-RELEASE quarterly > > - 15.1-RELEASE latest > > > > With respect to these CVE mitigations, it's remarkable that*: > > 15.1-RELEASE pkg users do not have access to > > virtualbox-ose-kmod-72-7.2.18.1501000 > > as opposed to: > > 15.0-RELEASE pkg users have access to > > virtualbox-ose-kmod-72-7.2.18.1500068 > > > > The commit was on 2026-09-16. Today, Thu Oct 2 > > (16 days later), the package still isn't available in > > FreeBSD-ports-kmods for 15.1-RELEASE (or, as of 2026Q4, > > not yet in FreeBSD-ports)*. As to the packages, I was > > expecting a delay of a few days after the commit date. > > > > Kind regards, > > Eric > > > > > > P.S. In the context of FreeBSD-ports-kmods, I find it > > noteworthy that a question on the freebsd-questions ML > > has been left unanswered: > > Re: FreeBSD-ports-kmods repo not updated since May? > > https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-questions/2026-August/008106= .html > > > > > > * For latest on 15.1-RELEASE: > > [0-0] # date -u > > Fri Oct 2 09:37:23 UTC 2026 > > [1-0] # pkg rquery -x '%R %o %n %v' 'virtualbox-ose(-kmod)?-72' | colum= n -t > > FreeBSD-ports emulators/virtualbox-ose-72 > > virtualbox-ose-72 7.2.18 > > FreeBSD-ports emulators/virtualbox-ose-kmod-72 > > virtualbox-ose-kmod-72 7.2.18.1500068 > > FreeBSD-ports-kmods emulators/virtualbox-ose-kmod-72 > > virtualbox-ose-kmod-72 7.2.8.1501000 > > [2-0] # > > > > Missing: > > FreeBSD-ports-kmods emulators/virtualbox-ose-kmod-72 > > virtualbox-ose-kmod-72 7.2.18.1501000 > --- Eric [1] For quarterly, using 15.1-RELEASE: [0-0] # date -u Mon Oct 5 14:47:13 UTC 2026 [1-0] # pkg rquery -x '%R %o %n %v' 'virtualbox-ose(-kmod)?-72' | column -t FreeBSD-ports emulators/virtualbox-ose-72 virtualbox-ose-72 7.2.18 FreeBSD-ports emulators/virtualbox-ose-kmod-72 virtualbox-ose-kmod-72 7.2.18.1500068 FreeBSD-ports-kmods emulators/virtualbox-ose-kmod-72 virtualbox-ose-kmod-72 7.2.8.1501000 Missing: virtualbox-ose-kmod-72, version 7.2.18.1501000 From nobody Mon Oct 5 16:23:50 2026 X-Original-To: questions@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4hz4TD18zwz6n53N; Mon, 05 Oct 2026 16:24:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mirror176@hotmail.com) Received: from CH1PR05CU001.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-northcentralusazolkn19010001.outbound.protection.outlook.com [52.103.20.1]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange secp384r1 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "mail.protection.outlook.com", Issuer "DigiCert SHA2 Secure Server CA" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4hz4TC29prz4LMM; Mon, 05 Oct 2026 16:23:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mirror176@hotmail.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=hotmail.com header.s=selector1 header.b=O12tfPAt; arc=pass ("microsoft.com:s=arcselector10001:i=1"); spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of mirror176@hotmail.com designates 52.103.20.1 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=mirror176@hotmail.com; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=hotmail.com ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector10001; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=AFOLS2eiAHyDkR4e6YcOujAmBnrIix4ewmc3ekmYc5LY/Cp2thJ1DSVLJOEGmfg9lI2xTK6G8A8Rjo3SWEfmshMUiDYsjTk0h/nd1g59irPwlK8y9SVNkKT9lW+YwM1FHvenKdUjDICO6YCCw4a0YX1DL27HjSL4vpH2GzjNZCkPxlMzaRrGGSrKxXKtX8nBe03ZUf+OwobB6QMHlFmSZmhc+KkEwej+A/Wu3PGX4VGLCkT5V9weAWah5yJK7KMTYV+59t0APt7CqJOtC4ZQZisp+OrTv7V6PozfjvKMejDlomAySVd2XzRSobhuX/UlfGffD22kXHce5sIi288r9w== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector10001; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-1; bh=5qM3SSxSvucQftURU1pHlKv0h+R9U94f/lWkWAZpWQ0=; b=hJzmwrCRPXTdPBwpENwo6MGtHV2grNg5hcK8cV17qHMvCgoAtQjKtjHJbWUuwgZbeJavt/PW8PcI9m1wpjzn6/8o8d/wuIYb7ygSq4Z6Fj47pEDdd05EVGb9fFldgil+63fUsEqihgbZaJKkszzg9aQ+7xeugzxqT2BsvMzSjkC7V9QocObpEhY37/NVduFSpiehfg+3ZIWYL5NhyvPhsYHtUqjsnqA8/ehF0dEOYn1ncKcW1/ZuKbUO5jHbE3Ec6UYa2bJ9x2LstEg4V5Zd+ReEuyJ7pNNsyzr0VOWWiY1BxBsGAS69zU12gEqoXFlr3bGnhxrK0i4DqFDbdmS69Q== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=none; dmarc=none; dkim=none; arc=none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=hotmail.com; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=5qM3SSxSvucQftURU1pHlKv0h+R9U94f/lWkWAZpWQ0=; b=O12tfPAtGwqXFk3l4EESeQdkUtiHrXPt9KLtFSueM/W7aGTqVDMWRUyzQzEjchMZFXkEp3wwmxJ6+ZFmUb0elAOpuk9S1vCpz3Vj8YLu9eMjPiQ6Glmnwz51NB5YPL8u+5o0KYU6zLB53d1+xVTGmN+McUdAlz2ejtREoEa3FMPeBOj97rnDfYepNAQOuDw/8JsbYib9jOkvQgxXGYd2T0BPfX6deCKKiaLxwJaC/12aK1ecXZpYGZ8g+cF6u+klGMc2WHaVe2h62I/ydJWIa/20lBF2QLXPhJGQ4HP9L5No6lAf2WjF4DzNHFxmPqzZfsUHBhJb+gvlXcTQmeXuWA== Received: from SA1PR11MB8811.namprd11.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:806:467::18) by PH0PR11MB4950.namprd11.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:510:33::20) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.21.472.20; Mon, 5 Oct 2026 16:23:54 +0000 Received: from SA1PR11MB8811.namprd11.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::5fae:75f1:3548:9369]) by SA1PR11MB8811.namprd11.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::5fae:75f1:3548:9369%5]) with mapi id 15.21.0472.016; Mon, 5 Oct 2026 16:23:54 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2026 09:23:50 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: CVEs not propagated from ports tree to FreeBSD package servers - FreeBSD policy? 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FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[hotmail.com]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[52.103.20.1:from]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[hotmail.com]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[hotmail.com:+]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[ports-secteam@FreeBSD.org,questions@freebsd.org]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com,FreeBSD.org]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[52.103.20.1:from]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[hotmail.com:dkim]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4hz4TC29prz4LMM On 10/5/26 07:50, Erichans wrote: > Thank you for responding. > > On Mon, Oct 5, 2026 at 12:58 AM Edward Sanford Sutton, III > wrote: >> >> On 10/2/26 05:02, Erichans wrote: >>> Hi, >>> >>> What is the policy of the FreeBSD project regarding >>> the propagation of CVE mitigations from the ports tree to >>> the FreeBSD package servers? >> >> To clarify, are you asking about packages for the kmods package >> repository? > Yes, that is correct. I don't know who is best to contact to get a rebuild to happen there but ports-secteam is usually a good point of contact about security issues so I'm including them; maybe worth asking if they could get a nudge to happen on those buildservers for this reason. I had to remove OS+arch at the end of the CPE string to lookup in the NVD and none of the entries are in our vulnerability database (would make users get alerts to issues but don't know if it forces any rebuilds to try to happen sooner). Link to CVEs for that version is https://nvd.nist.gov/vuln/search?cpeFilterMode=cpe&cpeName=cpe:2.3:a:oracle:vm_virtualbox:7.2.8:*:*:*:*:*:*:*&resultType=records Figuring out when CVEs do vs do not apply to FreeBSD is often beyond my ability but if these apply then they may warrant a vulnerability database entry. Skimming them by description sounds like its mentioning that with login access to the host could crash and alter guest virtual machines that execute on it and they suspect it could be used to reach out to non-virtualbox things as well. >> Once a port is updated in a ports tree it will impact >> packages that form from that tree but the kmods repo does build on a >> different cycle than the main packages. >> When users don't use the kmods repo they get the main build sequence >> but that causes issues for kernel modules as the main package repos >> build everything against 15.0 until its not supported and then will >> finally switch to 15.1. Most packages are fine with this while kmods are >> most likely to become incompatible which becomes particularly common for >> the modules using the Linux abi/kpi. > 15.1-RELEASE users that use the FreeBSD package servers and need > a package matching their kernel only have access to: > FreeBSD-ports-kmods emulators/virtualbox-ose-kmod-72 > virtualbox-ose-kmod-72 7.2.8.1501000 > > According to a commit of 2026-06-17, that version already had > several CVE related issues: > emulators/virtualbox-ose{,-additions,-kmod}-72: Update 7.2.8 => 7.2.10 (10 CVEs) > https://cgit.freebsd.org/ports/commit/emulators/virtualbox-ose-kmod-72?id=bbd7ab52a8a20722c901b3e4950cbb7e2b52581c > > To emphasize, users of release versions have their kmods repo > enabled by default for quarterly (for which the package is still > not available: [1] ). Optionally, they can switch to latest. I am > not aware of any FreeBSD advice, CVE related or otherwise, > that encourages or explicitly directs users to disable their kmods repo. > >> I'm not sure why kmods receive an order to be built that is separate >> from when the main packages do but ordering the kmods builds happen from >> the same ports tree commit as the main build packages are made from and >> then release them at the same time seems like a more reliable solution >> albeit with a little bit more work for the builders. > Hence my questions concerning the CVE mitigations. > >> >>> Regarding a specific example, the commit >>> "emulators/virtualbox-ose-*72: Update 7.2.16 => 7.2.18 (19 CVEs)": >>> https://cgit.freebsd.org/ports/commit/emulators/virtualbox-ose-kmod-72?id=13ab7c594392a69c355c4e6d38491587b9a39d7c >>> was not propagated to the FreeBSD-ports-kmods repository. >>> Why? >>> >>> This means packages with these CVE mitigations were not >>> made available to users of: >>> - 15.1-RELEASE quarterly >>> - 15.1-RELEASE latest >>> >>> With respect to these CVE mitigations, it's remarkable that*: >>> 15.1-RELEASE pkg users do not have access to >>> virtualbox-ose-kmod-72-7.2.18.1501000 >>> as opposed to: >>> 15.0-RELEASE pkg users have access to >>> virtualbox-ose-kmod-72-7.2.18.1500068 >>> >>> The commit was on 2026-09-16. Today, Thu Oct 2 >>> (16 days later), the package still isn't available in >>> FreeBSD-ports-kmods for 15.1-RELEASE (or, as of 2026Q4, >>> not yet in FreeBSD-ports)*. As to the packages, I was >>> expecting a delay of a few days after the commit date. >>> >>> Kind regards, >>> Eric >>> >>> >>> P.S. In the context of FreeBSD-ports-kmods, I find it >>> noteworthy that a question on the freebsd-questions ML >>> has been left unanswered: >>> Re: FreeBSD-ports-kmods repo not updated since May? >>> https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-questions/2026-August/008106.html >>> >>> >>> * For latest on 15.1-RELEASE: >>> [0-0] # date -u >>> Fri Oct 2 09:37:23 UTC 2026 >>> [1-0] # pkg rquery -x '%R %o %n %v' 'virtualbox-ose(-kmod)?-72' | column -t >>> FreeBSD-ports emulators/virtualbox-ose-72 >>> virtualbox-ose-72 7.2.18 >>> FreeBSD-ports emulators/virtualbox-ose-kmod-72 >>> virtualbox-ose-kmod-72 7.2.18.1500068 >>> FreeBSD-ports-kmods emulators/virtualbox-ose-kmod-72 >>> virtualbox-ose-kmod-72 7.2.8.1501000 >>> [2-0] # >>> >>> Missing: >>> FreeBSD-ports-kmods emulators/virtualbox-ose-kmod-72 >>> virtualbox-ose-kmod-72 7.2.18.1501000 >> > --- > Eric > > [1] For quarterly, using 15.1-RELEASE: > [0-0] # date -u > Mon Oct 5 14:47:13 UTC 2026 > [1-0] # pkg rquery -x '%R %o %n %v' 'virtualbox-ose(-kmod)?-72' | column -t > FreeBSD-ports emulators/virtualbox-ose-72 > virtualbox-ose-72 7.2.18 > FreeBSD-ports emulators/virtualbox-ose-kmod-72 > virtualbox-ose-kmod-72 7.2.18.1500068 > FreeBSD-ports-kmods emulators/virtualbox-ose-kmod-72 > virtualbox-ose-kmod-72 7.2.8.1501000 > > Missing: > virtualbox-ose-kmod-72, version 7.2.18.1501000 From nobody Mon Oct 5 17:56:11 2026 X-Original-To: freebsd-questions@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4hz6Wt26zKz6nDKW for ; 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Mon, 05 Oct 2026 10:56:23 -0700 (PDT) List-Id: User questions List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-questions List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: List-Owner: Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <119h6ed$fiu$2@gal.iecc.com> In-Reply-To: <119h6ed$fiu$2@gal.iecc.com> From: Adrian Chadd Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2026 10:56:11 -0700 X-Gm-Features: AclHuK_5m5AzznIPv1La-kTDg0q9rUAI27Ogy1sjFbWop3Mc1IleYtL8pKI1Quk Message-ID: Subject: Re: what exactly that message mean? To: John Levine Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000a4266e065d1b99e9" X-Spamd-Bar: / X-Spamd-Result: default: False [0.10 / 15.00]; ARC_ALLOW(-1.00)[google.com:s=arc-20260327:i=1]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[adrian@freebsd.org,adrianchadd@gmail.com]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:74.125.0.0/16]; DMARC_POLICY_SOFTFAIL(0.10)[freebsd.org : SPF not aligned (relaxed), No valid DKIM,none]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[74.125.224.166:from]; RCVD_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:74.125.0.0/16, country:US]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[adrian@freebsd.org,adrianchadd@gmail.com]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; ALIAS_RESOLVED(0.00)[]; MISSING_XM_UA(0.00)[] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4hz6Wr3tGyz4cJT --000000000000a4266e065d1b99e9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Tue, 29 Sept 2026 at 13:43, John Levine wrote: > According to Wojciech Puchar : > >swap_pager: indefinite wait buffer: bufobj: 0, blkno: 7415651, size: 4096 > > I see it a fair amount on a small and very overloaded VPS so it > appears to be an indirect way to say it's hopelessly thrashing. > > I agree that there are a lot of unhelpful comments about it. > > I just looked at the code in sys/vm/swap_pager.c . It prints it after a 20 second sleep waiting for the read to complete. -adrian --000000000000a4266e065d1b99e9 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Tue, 29 Sept= 2026 at 13:43, John Levine <johnl@iec= c.com> wrote:
According to Wojciech Puchar <wojtek@puchar.net>:
>swap_pager: indefinite wait buffer: bufobj: 0, blkno: 7415651, size: 40= 96

I see it a fair amount on a small and very overloaded VPS so it
appears to be an indirect way to say it's hopelessly thrashing.

I agree that there are a lot of unhelpful comments about it.


I just looked at the code in sys/vm/swap_pager.c = .=C2=A0

It prints it after a 20 second sleep waiti= ng for the read to complete.




-adrian

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X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SA1PR11MB8811.namprd11.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Oct 2026 18:04:09.9452 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Id: 84df9e7f-e9f6-40af-b435-aaaaaaaaaaaa X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-RMS-PersistedConsumerOrg: 00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: SA1PR11MB9614 X-Spamd-Bar: + X-Spamd-Result: default: False [1.50 / 15.00]; FORGED_MUA_THUNDERBIRD_MSGID_UNKNOWN(2.50)[]; ARC_ALLOW(-1.00)[microsoft.com:s=arcselector10001:i=1]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[hotmail.com,none]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[hotmail.com:s=selector1]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a01:111:f403:d000::/53]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8075, ipnet:2a01:111:f000::/36, country:US]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[hotmail.com]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[hotmail.com]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2a01:111:f403:d001::3:from]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[hotmail.com:dkim]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[questions@freebsd.org]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[hotmail.com:+] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4hz6hz4D76z4ddk On 10/5/26 10:56, Adrian Chadd wrote: > > > On Tue, 29 Sept 2026 at 13:43, John Levine > wrote: > > According to Wojciech Puchar >: > >swap_pager: indefinite wait buffer: bufobj: 0, blkno: 7415651, > size: 4096 > > I see it a fair amount on a small and very overloaded VPS so it > appears to be an indirect way to say it's hopelessly thrashing. > > I agree that there are a lot of unhelpful comments about it. > > > I just looked at the code in sys/vm/swap_pager.c . > > It prints it after a 20 second sleep waiting for the read to complete. As someone who sees such messages often enough when things like Firefox get to a thrashing state with its use of swap it would be nice to know that it was a 20 second timer being exceeded. The message makes me think something is broken instead of just slow and since I would expect something to crash with each message but that doesn't happen I assumed there was a problem with the message itself. If its a 20 second timer then that sounds more like a finite wait on a buffer. I much appreciate digging that explains what it really means. > > -adrian > From nobody Mon Oct 5 21:43:23 2026 X-Original-To: questions@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4hzCZ10ztHz6vSXq for ; Mon, 05 Oct 2026 21:43:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [217.72.192.75]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange secp256r1 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (3072 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "mout.kundenserver.de", Issuer "Telekom Security ServerID OV Class 2 CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4hzCYy6yZbz3C06 for ; Mon, 05 Oct 2026 21:43:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=edvax.de header.s=s1-ionos header.b=bn5a53mJ; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of freebsd@edvax.de designates 217.72.192.75 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=freebsd@edvax.de; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=edvax.de DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=edvax.de; s=s1-ionos; t=1791236611; x=1791841411; i=freebsd@edvax.de; bh=2ND4TDW29rr7PyB13nWMvo2OUcXbgoqQ4Srp313wZZY=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:Message-Id:In-Reply-To: References:Reply-To:Mime-Version:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding:cc:content-transfer-encoding: content-type:date:from:message-id:mime-version:reply-to:subject: to; b=bn5a53mJm5eTR4ExFFkcq7skKIwKu2nldg4oHKQLwlM796FUsOL/3Ml4faRgbviS Oc/r6GvYJ25fqG6YHKD0EXnGc6MHBsDjaUTtr7nh43GIrOobEsxrEJhirBPmGyiYs yMPARFY2P5uX4kzN+yyLXZVEGu1Zr6fxwuBYIuj3U7ibpDfGp/8agisqGDRp6pjru ABH/jFkmoYwW2MauNN/16qPajxTB3/8pIniJXqCO1l62JXvfPpRkE3/TXIo2Agm7W 7cHFRPUfkjGCJgnfbSSWa/Ra19io0c1IkbsOR+xP8hHi6C//R7AluGhC7wd2FG/Em 9WXvoSwQlM++KZjZow== X-UI-Sender-Class: 55c96926-9e95-11ee-ae09-1f7a4046a0f6 Received: from client.hidden.invalid by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue109 [213.165.67.113]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1N7Qp1-1wbqO7448T-00sRUJ; Mon, 05 Oct 2026 23:43:31 +0200 Received: from r56.edvax.de (r56 [10.200.1.11]) (authenticated bits=0) by terra.edvax.de (8.18.1/8.18.1) with ESMTPA id 695LhTmX002311; Mon, 5 Oct 2026 23:43:29 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2026 23:43:23 +0200 From: Polytropon To: Luigi Cc: questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Where is your FreeBSD? Message-Id: <20261005234323.cb3bdb1e.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: <40F0E96E-2996-41A0-8302-A9A11E7AA4E4@lbon.dev> References: <40F0E96E-2996-41A0-8302-A9A11E7AA4E4@lbon.dev> Reply-To: Polytropon Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) List-Id: User questions List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-questions List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: List-Owner: Precedence: list Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:3RXFjSrPZwv8vxSnHELS31okh9k3Fx2xGc4FKU2c1Xvsy95JeHj ggZtCGxY2e+wlbeT+tkaWkiBH9vzOb+94+XLCuQ4423W4VaxrpJvqOQ2QdeAaXG/vzsB10D AMZvd/ffgSRrzXpeKZ9VNfMIAxj9XW/Aey1BlPILUvOOcn/97xnMqIZEDvqZ1MeKTR1LZHe pS0OiFWfUWGzA1J8JxYaw== X-Spam-Flag: NO UI-OutboundReport: notjunk:1;M01:P0:FR47/VdNl2U=;2zQrwJxms/QTrWijNy1ldOVhX2A yTZovfIzmYTHYFfoBvaewenAmEIZ9Ljmt4bNc3q6ylwJTjJ66DiEmV+sv+JUK+ZPNdSMXmkiM bbVDnIdM68Lv/BEzRWLGGH+FZ2DtX5j2Pw2YKOdnUHiXE8C65fr9G8xobHX11nHciApKHtaOn 4tJBZbJ1ahVacNsvYqHQxGh22uHB8bkLpY8W5xXqkuyNSPuIO0FlMEThslYg/I/248FIYekeQ f/kSI1vk4mFpu0CvTB/ud+4dC6CgQ69RVjhNe9QVTzJ4e9+n8G7K86Yp26xwP3f4oagsEKXsC aM5QsawLuGZLd+bgd+8LlHC079IBob2TS0ShRPDm1bhsP/N9VBHfaQzzM4QG9vYZ/9P6nfOeg Bejc2vDfAu3cntbv1cbrSrS6/44YdMMjJB9f6k2syChfMNSSCd8Xf2PgmSeakiK4IkKS+iDCp NNyed0zn7X7egppApk+yQ2OaG3kw5OpzjrAocNFb+1s7Pt9yfC5I+QkSPFdNCS7/Bc32HvRgH q+ClwZM2xbOMpZ9N/o58qukuF/vnlD6+S34sxbSraTcJlgLZwVAlucwWy+kMn/Pbx8j/wNaYP R5gyuYkKqqtSRzyeiL9dNfYqzkJJnoFDBTTnW17yT4jRB3eVGwSu90LpjCsTi6ZxO4hzKeELB 4KSRyv+NkFEGdpaSpBRvLHHIlJHHU+ayBr9JwHif3rJcz8gxJxvLbP2gny0pzet72EsZD0O6W VNaOUm3DUhdCr1MoMjP9M1MKY22E0OGCff4VDhaGv3pWJUb/GpqkWzn5cKZG9vHHIGOLGpVdK 1s2QRRUhwQca0plMtJEFdhbFKdpaxXxFwJcxGoL5cAIyfeIhqMQG0ty1ziwFlz0SWBdG52Cc6 83E1BhO/SuZ2uNHLLzQNq12CZZd+kblxc87kRMVBpN6vkRpsYmPbagoTp0V2eIAJvelPVSpRB c6XA+seWG2bhMtZSwUdW6srBi1PUWYQHX/uPKQi/GQsx6tLmAO+DLLl1zotkxaClKHl/m5Y1Q xintw/YOYcgPt3jT0xE1pTeT4cQdOlIB/XVnP/2W+Y5+b6JAATAMPMO3xCcnfEcZprMOAnH17 qBMBcddjN/U+N2/YknmIqDbj1e/XNqptzxUi87GrBdLynqMth5/BMZc0j8JYOUSNqHtyajspd PX9lvlto1y9ZoPivEcwwU3BPBF2JuKASBYORFt9f7/2sLAF8wHst5YCNB0c3mCNLwWFHgyWcO vFtB7OiOdjROpaR82WaWd8jAu7Cn5xybzJBgbQRHFJIbcn21E3rEDHl6cuD0KKYUScQFasrAn uY9jitAnoiR3zsKvN3xvS7lgQEKmj3mDAB/pW/NdDX0P6Br0a7z8ufk5DzzScmQ9vSBBVl/D8 joIPQRIAvdpPOXQaA6uPX8mZdPEghCAEvAE4xNCuKbS+KQD7o3LddrpAbnm3UEOR2P32D1S0W i1lzlK32ZTqbDac7da7rN45X1NXxKeWFKnKh+E1rjuYlv8KGkg/5iy2NlN00TVCz/iRGjdDz1 X8sozj418i5dKZpON3OXsu26gnwjw9O+EPdnCc/nP6NZ0woWZ8yqGHwgImPqVPaPvEaieB30f 7aUipuon4yzSOrgpMKqW6d+LhZtboo9PstsaCEICEIiYP4b3mnkmeMu1Dcje77jTmHZu8OK5N 0S3zGA2mEvwSLNQYMG5yHRjiGv/hRLxlIcs7HWFNAo+zS367QjzIvthCVeKCq6mCZKuBX+XVM eRyq3ZY3l/rfTu54uHqJhxbwRdXBKZudEY6xZ3KBmMEYoFhweVGqZF3vC+0bTVlrzBRnJq+Cw VH7l9sjCFEuELBd4jE8xsygD9r3IpgGhojMloIap7atnfaxCxk4G9FUuGbVULfyTlS0Qw6fb2 HzkUYkVEG7e+hf6otCJfkX43YBYHcqAJkM2I3Wd0Aao3apRsJnCn9hYLhHu0SjvooD5owyxVW goew0qxpZHL01/U6y3aLPurYqxuGVgT5VEHwC9uJqHArXSk3HjzAyYS5Bx1yppNS/0gfI4uR0 xESRYncRtJshNGjuksjoL1BLsPVanLNrYWxSBeoGH290ZXDhyD0ZyajlpHxc8L5yga7ou9SNY kIxRwdRtw3mU4n6E5bu7W98LR3BPbKuGsX90QWyXg7aF90b3vmfbaTaQ3SQfAuEwkeTZNtHPf P+bhEVNIfPT25KSZszFo25wAKEJjH+YxC9A9vwZtxSoET3QxV9DtIP8ldNWgAaffLzuNPi6zb obypA6nNHQZ+bec1UpOcfbNLyyBQvNeZt1M/OtXQ/rhAQHUJBG1Qf5vlHpByswbFxs+U6k5VN xQyWIWnrB0+aLakpCR25VPehsl8P/gKNs+mQe0W/0vkyo4L8qZGBuSj+3SsGPwJLDc2t58gOb 6Vqh3zaWrifBplVXwITlNyS35idIllSezUwtyRm71A5E+LecmOK4C/kppRLu7ECSG2nbw5pj4 UPxhsmmAEFA888UOgrhPFby6FTmU4VbYER4yEzUnw9n32so9aLz X-Spamd-Bar: + X-Spamd-Result: default: False [1.50 / 15.00]; MID_CONTAINS_FROM(1.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[edvax.de,none]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:217.72.192.64/26]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[edvax.de:s=s1-ionos]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8560, ipnet:217.72.192.0/20, country:DE]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[217.72.192.75:from]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[edvax.de:+]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd@edvax.de]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[questions@freebsd.org]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4hzCYy6yZbz3C06 On Mon, 21 Sep 2026 22:34:36 +0200, Luigi wrote: > I wonder, are there more FreeBSD "laptop users" or "server users=E2=80= =9D > out there ? >=20 > Just curious about your thoughts on the matter. I'm using FreeBSD as a desktop and laptop OS on a daily basis. My journey started with FreeBSD 4.0 as a desktop OS. Compared to the alternatives, I was able to do anything I wanted, for as long as I wanted, the way I wanted. Of course I installed and configured all the things for programming, productivity, office use, multimedia use, gaming, data forensics, network diagnostics and so on with the appropriate tools and using the config dialogs and files of the respective programs. I'm looking around to other OS lands, and everything just looks unintuitive, overcomplicated, buggy and done without actual thoughts about how things should be done. Saying this as an old man coming from a heterogenous OS world (mainframe, PCs, workstations, running things like Solaris, IRIX, Linux, even DOS - not that one, the other one -, and many others), FreeBSD still is my first choice when I want things to just work and _not_ fight against my intentions. Today I run FreeBSD, OpenBSD, NetBSD (special cases) and Linux on my systems. FreeBSD is a multi-purpose OS per definition. You can run it on servers, workstations, PCs, laptops, embedded systems. Due to its licensing, you'll never actually know _where_ is runs, maybe in your router? ;-) Traditionally, FreeBSD is often considered a "server-only OS", and that's what it seems to be used for primarily. However, don't be fooled by "market share" nonsense telling you people don't use it on laptops or that it doesn't work on PCs. It does, and they use it. I simply can't be that I'm the only one. :-) =2D-=20 Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... From nobody Mon Oct 5 23:22:54 2026 X-Original-To: questions@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4hzFmf0nTvz6vb1q for ; Mon, 05 Oct 2026 23:22:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@dreamchaser.org) Received: from ns.dreamchaser.org (ns.dreamchaser.org [66.109.141.57]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange x25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature ECDSA (prime256v1) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "discoveriesinwood.com", Issuer "YE1" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4hzFmd3S26z3Q3S for ; Mon, 05 Oct 2026 23:22:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@dreamchaser.org) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of freebsd@dreamchaser.org designates 66.109.141.57 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=freebsd@dreamchaser.org; dmarc=none Received: from [192.168.151.122] (breakaway.dreamchaser.org [192.168.151.122]) by ns.dreamchaser.org (8.18.1/8.18.1) with ESMTP id 695NMsrN076603; Mon, 5 Oct 2026 17:22:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from freebsd@dreamchaser.org) Message-ID: <96598c2a-e9bc-49e6-932e-5d0017141eff@dreamchaser.org> Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2026 17:22:54 -0600 List-Id: User questions List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-questions List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: List-Owner: Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: Where is your FreeBSD? Content-Language: en-US To: Luigi Cc: questions@freebsd.org References: <40F0E96E-2996-41A0-8302-A9A11E7AA4E4@lbon.dev> <20261005234323.cb3bdb1e.freebsd@edvax.de> From: Gary Aitken Reply-To: freebsd@dreamchaser.org In-Reply-To: <20261005234323.cb3bdb1e.freebsd@edvax.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Greylist: inspected by milter-greylist-4.6.4 (ns.dreamchaser.org [192.168.151.101]); Mon, 05 Oct 2026 17:22:55 -0600 (MDT) for IP:'192.168.151.122' DOMAIN:'breakaway.dreamchaser.org' HELO:'[192.168.151.122]' FROM:'freebsd@dreamchaser.org' RCPT:'' X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.6.4 (ns.dreamchaser.org [192.168.151.101]); Mon, 05 Oct 2026 17:22:55 -0600 (MDT) X-Spamd-Bar: / X-Spamd-Result: default: False [0.90 / 15.00]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ONCE_RECEIVED(0.20)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx:c]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; ASN(0.00)[asn:21947, ipnet:66.109.128.0/19, country:US]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_ADDR_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd@dreamchaser.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[dreamchaser.org]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[questions@freebsd.org]; REPLYTO_DOM_NEQ_TO_DOM(0.00)[] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4hzFmd3S26z3Q3S On Mon, 21 Sep 2026 22:34:36 +0200, Luigi wrote: > I wonder, are there more FreeBSD "laptop users" or "server users” > out there ? > > Just curious about your thoughts on the matter. I run fbsd on an ancient PC server, and as my daily workstation on 10 year old home assembled hardware. Daily work includes regular office stuff, 3d print design, photo editing, remote admin of ubuntu servers, and the usual too much web surfing. My framework laptop runs ubuntu, mostly because it's officially supported and the update process has so far (4 yrs?) been pretty no-brainer. I only use the laptop for things I don't have running on fbsd -- prusa slicer; and occasionally websites I really need that don't work on my fbsd firefox with noscript. Gary From nobody Mon Oct 5 23:43:15 2026 X-Original-To: questions@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4hzGDB4Vz1z6vcbG for ; Mon, 05 Oct 2026 23:43:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dukeofpurl@gmx.com) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.15.19]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange secp256r1 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (3072 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "mout.gmx.net", Issuer "Telekom Security ServerID OV Class 2 CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4hzGD90MgNz4DgW for ; Mon, 05 Oct 2026 23:43:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dukeofpurl@gmx.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmx.com header.s=s31663417 header.b=CqRdWdKB; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of dukeofpurl@gmx.com designates 212.227.15.19 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=dukeofpurl@gmx.com; dmarc=pass (policy=quarantine) header.from=gmx.com DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmx.com; s=s31663417; t=1791243798; x=1791848598; i=dukeofpurl@gmx.com; bh=51S0POb8BvSvQRVbK62H3LoiPaufSHzr8kPOP+59IpE=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:Message-Id:In-Reply-To: References:Mime-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:cc: content-transfer-encoding:content-type:date:from:message-id: mime-version:reply-to:subject:to; b=CqRdWdKBaG+11CgAIJIlhrE4A038/l3qeqCCBfyJAMxZuTtdKhT2PlVnKqYfhoaZ fWnfjwsIobNNLomt3DEgfJwbrKDjX7H5qpZ8xj+zp1IANsU6vvkX9PCgIAHfkIkKw FMd3+y4Or4CHp/PZphRmnFE06KcdaZR92AfqN3fZOu45AAV3baqAYOyBrKOzrtlta /sJZohruN72dlfkZKzZIfNS21OhJo3B1tJL5P73SzkKJMCVOUi4cZ3LnvtDPidyBl 4WJZuZliSyS03gKp97RyDvX86E7w3xhn6YLUJC2jwGIIajc4JgMPlhDADMwkTVpUA fGpud3Z0QYYb2iskkQ== X-UI-Sender-Class: 724b4f7f-cbec-4199-ad4e-598c01a50d3a Received: from client.hidden.invalid by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx005 [212.227.17.184]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1M7b2d-1xJdd50tPp-005rDq; Tue, 06 Oct 2026 01:43:18 +0200 Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2026 17:43:15 -0600 From: Duke Normandin To: freebsd@dreamchaser.org Cc: questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Where is your FreeBSD? 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default: False [0.40 / 15.00]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmx.com,quarantine]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+a:mout.gmx.net]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmx.com:s=s31663417]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_VERYGOOD(-0.20)[212.227.15.19:from]; ONCE_RECEIVED(0.20)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[212.227.15.19:from]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmx.com:+]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmx.com]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8560, ipnet:212.227.0.0/16, country:DE]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmx.com]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[questions@freebsd.org]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmx.com:dkim] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4hzGD90MgNz4DgW On Mon, 5 Oct 2026 17:22:54 -0600 Gary Aitken wrote: > On Mon, 21 Sep 2026 22:34:36 +0200, Luigi wrote: > > I wonder, are there more FreeBSD "laptop users" or "server users=E2=80= =9D > > out there ? > > > > Just curious about your thoughts on the matter. >=20 > I run fbsd on an ancient PC server, and as my daily workstation on 10 ye= ar > old home assembled hardware.=20 I'm trying to get X (fluxbox) running on FBSD-15.1 on my 2011 ASUS i7 lapt= op. The graphics resolution was locked at 800x600 in the console and X. Got the resolution issue ironed out but now I have no X-Windows. xorg chokes o= n `startx' with "No screens found". Any idea on how I can solve this? I have 2 graphics card in this box: Intel & nvidia. I've disabled the nvid= ia by choosing the applicable busID. TIA ... =2D-=20 Duke From nobody Tue Oct 6 02:53:11 2026 X-Original-To: questions@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4hzLRM3tydz4nBnB for ; Tue, 06 Oct 2026 02:53:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from melson.r@att.net) Received: from sonic310-25.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (sonic310-25.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com [98.137.69.151]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange x25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4hzLRK6KxMz4b61 for ; Tue, 06 Oct 2026 02:53:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from melson.r@att.net) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=att.net header.s=s1024 header.b=AfpMyX1u; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of melson.r@att.net designates 98.137.69.151 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=melson.r@att.net; dmarc=pass (policy=quarantine) header.from=att.net DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=att.net; s=s1024; t=1791255195; bh=GXn58iXB8YaNY0+3/wO6vo1PownKrLrRkb2U7Ieo01o=; h=Date:Subject:To:Cc:References:From:In-Reply-To:From:Subject:Reply-To; b=AfpMyX1uJb3GIFC/+LiB6AQ9TIiOgg/R4FjaiFgwKRxBzbJWNj7pZLpyKcpT+upCzcbxZKhMF5pbZ0HX8fYuJlrNedqXH8EBfl13Wg1Swd36D+ccOqQbcDXMuOFgPrlol0xna2cK5NZDvUZUY5ipSelRagGMPWgPuEh/xGSR5t0= X-SONIC-DKIM-SIGN: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1791255195; bh=YSmJPNf+8unjsqrpVLfBsxpp/qvqfipwAf6BxgFKJ6F=; h=X-Sonic-MF:Date:Subject:To:From:From:Subject; b=FqEMHvoSK+xilT0MmmoqBEAHG07He5Nx6LTqvJpYHfhUIbVxf75WOpqFLZwF7yPFOVya3dM/Ci2GFvWKbHfN4mIvHF4cBtBevPuNLxxyP0/8wWnLMvRisVIMtXIzEnz447WVRfof76970cDDajxDjEWCvoE04tbTVHpVHtNL71K9us6Gp5oOJTLdKY1GxT+hDg2VA3ZTo06TgxOrN4oiXdTiyxDnjB0o0el0ZY/pEMEs5vv5Y/2nDEcAp0DY3XVDREnPapC/jNK6YK2yHUu98DfD97CZIR4jvzPpZVX4SZMsGITiO54M1Nyoc7rgtKNe01o+V7q81kE76xKS1yOcpQ== X-YMail-OSG: XlQ6V9oVM1lONHNNB8WcCY22R1L5mc59P82JCLQwBtVye7DKwBbkI.6BE8MLGB6 fec2aYRpAg6ZiCOWjhdotBfuFh0MK1YSuJNrAE1iFbMYfagl5gQs.OFQNlXhPhVscWJY2c3544ed cAso.RbKmGwq_F8CZVLH6xpXS0eUJx2ZZ07bvvA0.UfaUxcCiRYZqEmlyu3xNhzfMi55e6NXITbe Lh0v7EEuLYF7CAFxjpFWdnyjBjlswRikpk07wTIxLdAnz1gTeZa9BggR4YTU9vEIgLNC_PTwagkP XMaA5MlCuvnlAVOvXhCgPcfBMrLaV1kAaI.zo.pmnQzPOzXZFb6iRyS8GODMJRh3chpq_FsCDcHm lmWqqjF7ee3nd_v4R9ivx3Toos.R7EwFffN0ysBNp.1HdP3wyokNkbvH.YdRbxBd3tdX8_o98nYe 6FJzgMKkooicMGYdQoT8FWz7gZBF4eK8A50P1tPK7LIkNeHqyUo6aEi44aRxWsdZeg4xAW0p0RzK sEKgtXcVNAegyotl6E57dQfZM28Ck9bUFUud9_kikmXe4JDbJ4dqeq6joR8tCXclUASlCNOEjRXW 4fFZqzgZ47a8HwhSLMD1kf8k_huEe7jJbTQFXQRlSshnwOAJoBL85yP7qcSKWBuDgY_vzdcrmF.W PT11bthsyCrtwDnP92FaUt0G7T0S0wi0HIdZSvWorj2zfAxbHxv1cg0jUfNhbIpPp5yXzUIyA_RE ES6VGaE8q35SWKCCvbfgNEto9xN4yXM9SdB5IrhiiAtjvwBq9bxbBYotqpZ2ygPG_VGudGTM.W5v iJFiFIkbhAjvkeo317z5YMVZDbrT4UdoYaeRuB33H9iy8ufgx6Rm8q97DZTY7ptN0BqxlTBAENCq QNf6MCaqNmL3OXckUVX0kl2yKkVyMEGWshOIJ9lULh7eyeksY1ZMSHZ5Ef6k_qfPnav584T_tbvN jQZtRWgj6TBBuM4g27F9UQ9r.F2DjGELXpegdx2MpVo5qpSfGGxIlNYOqv7zf9aOv1MavB39Bg96 2gbk8.aGzmaRFQdyh6h2T6QsbvnmOnbPPMjJprUrXFHs6OmzKgH.qQ1efTDS_q6ExY71rCYC3vk7 vm2vgIv.FSNHhbCC_2nCzNnABpATdGXoOBeHpncX4I0OfoYSUltjoPleAR0GCML.Cx8jIYP0hKi2 cPxk3QeAhcpxhs.YUYHaTiYEc4YsdQqt2xGEelMBUp7ybOKC3zfCxxVDZtFSaaXe0qjfiTBQ99yM a6wU2ZsCo4bSASW9IEmzE_vUkCdJIXsLatIRWJ2osvT5GJdGVXClFzcFQF7xo4FVhRlDc.eaxdgc qHdNdUdh.vzUmkrTfdwZzQWEQosFXRN9pYmLVXbmco3riF5aKpGJxqkXagvOfVJI1sN4uGbLtkDU dgl9mxW7wl3IPGSw2yOVIAd1gQI0rB_bv1XHYHj.nKnDq7x3KGv6XSae.nSnKWAnGhoVcmtGQFwy K4YX.0Bs9QgNgM0rfgdOJ_.L7.Ym.jOIBnfd8R3tSOvZ0.H.OKWjGJ98dMlUnAFG118XA1v5Qm6H HheTVuaV.4a2m.z92M3rDYetf8T9f0APWq6TH0XiacldFu6MSYdD.hrLxo0F8p66degcdAZ2zrUn 6RrBldOV21qVn5K6kT3ubxRL1T74b4RFa6_XmByCzX.11_Fdpspyyb3HofJmlMef.nT.3n29NvLB 0KxxuU9msDjVS4s0B.ti09dJwUSpPZ1MSjxzyHNQVf0vlE8rbF4XEUWOlUxNv7dhSne3WROtPA7B XbfSRP.cci4YNVtuAK9dmTzdRi1fzVQH2LlKDl_EdsyAtOUm8cBFqQpKdI9IWvreOEGaMCB3CKrp bxaDL7o9Y9U3IrHVDu7TyXRhBuyVDWJ8govoIfRJ0d64FIglMwVYWMSXET28PTZA6K8HaUdf2zaw HDsFm8G5YB1HuIsoLMqyo3STr6FwDyBqX6hONuOLoH4iyf3wISrlKM9c_rGocP77NeYacEaVR2v1 QwAS4NdcwnaJK1wvp_kabVlZ0QBGLUX6pgTRRFyrwBhsRSzP0DRFY.VelOnvkuYhu3aMlidjgn1b G2U2C5rE9GsVf0iFutvE4lrYZZ0DZyql4flZzit_nmlV0esPUoEDCwTEi1xekkEieChZ5biH8tkU uN40u9WQmoLtoZO.nZW5UJoo4ucWyxAENN9Z_eKYuFKIeJMfS5W5np.kPz7Tx16qS3W_4jnRaGQe gJL2ZigYKOvRAAOp4OJnWEkyuii4T6y1_aCtUh71B9pZHfeYdnqVcNAw9IX2WisHT1g5Yaml2yvE pWvbYGXB_XnI- X-Sonic-MF: X-Sonic-ID: da8b6de5-ac2a-45d6-ab6d-472a47f844f5 Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic310.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Tue, 6 Oct 2026 02:53:15 +0000 Received: by hermes--production-ne1-d845779f7-4m55r (Yahoo Inc. Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 6078f562de958fcf0fff5a70e64abea2; Tue, 06 Oct 2026 02:53:13 +0000 (UTC) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------kIX0x4p00X8ydRGXQOWKmNjr" Message-ID: <338ec6b5-f8f0-4a99-b406-5b7871f9acb4@att.net> Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2026 20:53:11 -0600 List-Id: User questions List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-questions List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: List-Owner: Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: Where is your FreeBSD? To: Polytropon , Luigi Cc: questions@freebsd.org References: <40F0E96E-2996-41A0-8302-A9A11E7AA4E4@lbon.dev> <20261005234323.cb3bdb1e.freebsd@edvax.de> Content-Language: en-US From: Bob Melson Organization: Dept. of Paleocomputing, Whatsamatta U. In-Reply-To: <20261005234323.cb3bdb1e.freebsd@edvax.de> X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.26668 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo X-Spamd-Bar: / X-Spamd-Result: default: False [0.00 / 15.00]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[att.net,quarantine]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[att.net:s=s1024]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:98.137.64.0/21]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36647, ipnet:98.137.64.0/20, country:US]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[98.137.69.151:from]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[att.net]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[att.net]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[questions@freebsd.org]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[att.net:dkim]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[att.net:+] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4hzLRK6KxMz4b61 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------kIX0x4p00X8ydRGXQOWKmNjr Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Your history below could easily by my  own, with a (slightly) different mix of operating systems and going back to FBSD version 2.  Like you, I've looked at the world outside and continue to find FBSD best suited for my current usage, just as it has been my OS  of choice in the past.That said, I agree 100%. Gruesse aus Texas, Bob Melson On 10/5/26 15:43, Polytropon wrote: > On Mon, 21 Sep 2026 22:34:36 +0200, Luigi wrote: >> I wonder, are there more FreeBSD "laptop users" or "server users” >> out there ? >> >> Just curious about your thoughts on the matter. > I'm using FreeBSD as a desktop and laptop OS on a daily basis. > My journey started with FreeBSD 4.0 as a desktop OS. Compared > to the alternatives, I was able to do anything I wanted, for > as long as I wanted, the way I wanted. Of course I installed > and configured all the things for programming, productivity, > office use, multimedia use, gaming, data forensics, network > diagnostics and so on with the appropriate tools and using > the config dialogs and files of the respective programs. I'm > looking around to other OS lands, and everything just looks > unintuitive, overcomplicated, buggy and done without actual > thoughts about how things should be done. Saying this as an > old man coming from a heterogenous OS world (mainframe, PCs, > workstations, running things like Solaris, IRIX, Linux, even > DOS - not that one, the other one -, and many others), FreeBSD > still is my first choice when I want things to just work and > _not_ fight against my intentions. Today I run FreeBSD, OpenBSD, > NetBSD (special cases) and Linux on my systems. > > FreeBSD is a multi-purpose OS per definition. You can run it > on servers, workstations, PCs, laptops, embedded systems. Due > to its licensing, you'll never actually know _where_ is runs, > maybe in your router? ;-) > > Traditionally, FreeBSD is often considered a "server-only OS", > and that's what it seems to be used for primarily. However, > don't be fooled by "market share" nonsense telling you people > don't use it on laptops or that it doesn't work on PCs. It does, > and they use it. I simply can't be that I'm the only one. :-) > > > -- Robert G. Melson | Rio Grande Microsolutions | El Paso, TX -- A modern liberal is someone who doesn't care what you do, as long as it's compulsory. M. Stanton Evans --------------kIX0x4p00X8ydRGXQOWKmNjr Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Your history below could easily by my  own, with a (slightly) different mix of operating systems and going back to FBSD version 2.  Like you, I've looked at the world outside and continue to find FBSD best suited for my current usage, just as it has been my OS  of choice in the past.That said, I agree 100%.

Gruesse aus Texas,

Bob Melson


On 10/5/26 15:43, Polytropon wrote:
On Mon, 21 Sep 2026 22:34:36 +0200, Luigi wrote:

I wonder, are there more FreeBSD "laptop users" or "server users”
out there ?

Just curious about your thoughts on the matter.

I'm using FreeBSD as a desktop and laptop OS on a daily basis.
My journey started with FreeBSD 4.0 as a desktop OS. Compared
to the alternatives, I was able to do anything I wanted, for
as long as I wanted, the way I wanted. Of course I installed
and configured all the things for programming, productivity,
office use, multimedia use, gaming, data forensics, network
diagnostics and so on with the appropriate tools and using
the config dialogs and files of the respective programs. I'm
looking around to other OS lands, and everything just looks
unintuitive, overcomplicated, buggy and done without actual
thoughts about how things should be done. Saying this as an
old man coming from a heterogenous OS world (mainframe, PCs,
workstations, running things like Solaris, IRIX, Linux, even
DOS - not that one, the other one -, and many others), FreeBSD
still is my first choice when I want things to just work and
_not_ fight against my intentions. Today I run FreeBSD, OpenBSD,
NetBSD (special cases) and Linux on my systems.

FreeBSD is a multi-purpose OS per definition. You can run it
on servers, workstations, PCs, laptops, embedded systems. Due
to its licensing, you'll never actually know _where_ is runs,
maybe in your router? ;-)

Traditionally, FreeBSD is often considered a "server-only OS",
and that's what it seems to be used for primarily. However,
don't be fooled by "market share" nonsense telling you people
don't use it on laptops or that it doesn't work on PCs. It does,
and they use it. I simply can't be that I'm the only one. :-)





-- 
Robert G. Melson | Rio Grande Microsolutions | El Paso, TX
--
A modern liberal is someone who doesn't care what you do, as long as
it's compulsory.  M. Stanton Evans

--------------kIX0x4p00X8ydRGXQOWKmNjr-- From nobody Tue Oct 6 03:58:20 2026 X-Original-To: questions@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4hzMtV1PdVz6YxH0 for ; Tue, 06 Oct 2026 03:58:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@dreamchaser.org) Received: from ns.dreamchaser.org (ns.dreamchaser.org [66.109.141.57]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange x25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature ECDSA (prime256v1) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "discoveriesinwood.com", Issuer "YE1" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4hzMtS6VgTz4kcp for ; Tue, 06 Oct 2026 03:58:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@dreamchaser.org) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of freebsd@dreamchaser.org designates 66.109.141.57 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=freebsd@dreamchaser.org; dmarc=none Received: from [192.168.151.122] (breakaway.dreamchaser.org [192.168.151.122]) by ns.dreamchaser.org (8.18.1/8.18.1) with ESMTP id 6963wKvk077222; Mon, 5 Oct 2026 21:58:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from freebsd@dreamchaser.org) Message-ID: <6a49fb04-b5d5-49dd-a26e-a7a01ebf7f59@dreamchaser.org> Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2026 21:58:20 -0600 List-Id: User questions List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-questions List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: List-Owner: Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Reply-To: freebsd@dreamchaser.org Subject: Re: Where is your FreeBSD? Content-Language: en-US To: Duke Normandin Cc: questions@freebsd.org References: <40F0E96E-2996-41A0-8302-A9A11E7AA4E4@lbon.dev> <20261005234323.cb3bdb1e.freebsd@edvax.de> <96598c2a-e9bc-49e6-932e-5d0017141eff@dreamchaser.org> <20261005174315.fbae08b13d31d19c930f6ad6@gmx.com> From: Gary Aitken In-Reply-To: <20261005174315.fbae08b13d31d19c930f6ad6@gmx.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Greylist: inspected by milter-greylist-4.6.4 (ns.dreamchaser.org [192.168.151.101]); Mon, 05 Oct 2026 21:58:21 -0600 (MDT) for IP:'192.168.151.122' DOMAIN:'breakaway.dreamchaser.org' HELO:'[192.168.151.122]' FROM:'freebsd@dreamchaser.org' RCPT:'' X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.6.4 (ns.dreamchaser.org [192.168.151.101]); Mon, 05 Oct 2026 21:58:21 -0600 (MDT) X-Spamd-Bar: / X-Spamd-Result: default: False [0.90 / 15.00]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; ONCE_RECEIVED(0.20)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; ASN(0.00)[asn:21947, ipnet:66.109.128.0/19, country:US]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmx.com]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_ADDR_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd@dreamchaser.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[dreamchaser.org]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[questions@freebsd.org]; REPLYTO_DOM_NEQ_TO_DOM(0.00)[] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4hzMtS6VgTz4kcp On 10/5/26 17:43, Duke Normandin wrote: > On Mon, 5 Oct 2026 17:22:54 -0600 > Gary Aitken wrote: > >> On Mon, 21 Sep 2026 22:34:36 +0200, Luigi wrote: >>> I wonder, are there more FreeBSD "laptop users" or "server users” >>> out there ? ... >> I run fbsd on an ancient PC server, and as my daily workstation on 10 year >> old home assembled hardware. > > I'm trying to get X (fluxbox) running on FBSD-15.1 on my 2011 ASUS i7 laptop. > The graphics resolution was locked at 800x600 in the console and X. Got > the resolution issue ironed out but now I have no X-Windows. xorg chokes on > `startx' with "No screens found". Any idea on how I can solve this? > > I have 2 graphics card in this box: Intel & nvidia. I've disabled the nvidia by > choosing the applicable busID. TIA ... Unfortunately, no. I haven't upgraded to 15, and haven't modified my X environment (other than tweaking .xinitrc) in ... years? I have an old radeon HD5550 card installed but I have never gotten its accelerator functions to work, although that is the card driving my screen. Also have an old nvidia I couldn't get to work either, so I just gave up on them. I think the HD5550 was not supported by the driver; can't remember what the nvidia problem was. I get by with slow graphics but sometimes it's painful (running FreeCAD). I have a bunch of old xorg.conf.xxx files sitting around, but no xorg.conf; I think it's just using dumb framebuffer defaults. I do use a trackball that I have configured but that is done in .xinitrc using xmodmap. According to /var/log/Xorg.0.log, my config is only coming from the system default at /usr/local/share/X11/xorg.conf.d; and there are no output configs there -- only input stuff; and there are no other config files listed in the log. What I think are relevant portions of the log: It appears it deleted screen 0 at [41.368] and then automagically recreated it (see [41.479]) [ 40.940] (==) No screen section available. Using defaults. [ 40.940] (**) |-->Screen "Default Screen Section" (0) [ 40.940] (**) | |-->Monitor "" [ 40.957] (==) No monitor specified for screen "Default Screen Section". Using a default monitor configuration. [ 40.957] (**) Allowing byte-swapped clients ... [ 41.117] X.Org Video Driver: 25.2 [ 41.117] X.Org XInput driver : 24.4 [ 41.117] X.Org Server Extension : 10.0 [ 41.132] (--) PCI:*(5@0:0:0) 1002:68da:1545:5550 rev 0, Mem @ 0xd0000000/268435456, 0xfe9e0000/131072, I/O @ 0x0000e000/256, BIO S @ 0x????????/65536 [ 41.137] (II) LoadModule: "glx" [ 41.180] (II) Loading /usr/local/lib/xorg/modules/extensions/libglx.so [ 41.298] (II) Module glx: vendor="X.Org Foundation" [ 41.298] compiled for 1.21.1.16, module version = 1.0.0 [ 41.298] ABI class: X.Org Server Extension, version 10.0 [ 41.298] (==) Matched ati as autoconfigured driver 0 [ 41.298] (==) Matched modesetting as autoconfigured driver 1 [ 41.298] (==) Matched scfb as autoconfigured driver 2 [ 41.298] (==) Matched vesa as autoconfigured driver 3 [ 41.298] (==) Assigned the driver to the xf86ConfigLayout [ 41.298] (II) LoadModule: "ati" [ 41.298] (WW) Warning, couldn't open module ati [ 41.298] (EE) Failed to load module "ati" (module does not exist, 0) [ 41.298] (II) LoadModule: "modesetting" [ 41.298] (II) Loading /usr/local/lib/xorg/modules/drivers/modesetting_drv.so [ 41.335] (II) Module modesetting: vendor="X.Org Foundation" [ 41.335] compiled for 1.21.1.16, module version = 1.21.1 [ 41.335] Module class: X.Org Video Driver [ 41.335] ABI class: X.Org Video Driver, version 25.2 [ 41.335] (II) LoadModule: "scfb" [ 41.335] (II) Loading /usr/local/lib/xorg/modules/drivers/scfb_drv.so [ 41.345] (II) Module scfb: vendor="X.Org Foundation" [ 41.345] compiled for 1.21.1.16, module version = 0.0.5 [ 41.345] ABI class: X.Org Video Driver, version 25.2 [ 41.345] (II) LoadModule: "vesa" [ 41.345] (II) Loading /usr/local/lib/xorg/modules/drivers/vesa_drv.so [ 41.345] (II) Module vesa: vendor="X.Org Foundation" [ 41.345] compiled for 1.21.1.16, module version = 2.5.0 [ 41.345] Module class: X.Org Video Driver [ 41.345] ABI class: X.Org Video Driver, version 25.2 [ 41.345] (II) modesetting: Driver for Modesetting Kernel Drivers: kms [ 41.345] (II) scfb: driver for wsdisplay framebuffer: scfb [ 41.345] (II) VESA: driver for VESA chipsets: vesa [ 41.346] (--) Using syscons driver with X support (version 2.0) [ 41.346] (--) using VT number 9 [ 41.368] (EE) open /dev/dri/card0: No such file or directory [ 41.368] (WW) Falling back to old probe method for modesetting [ 41.368] (EE) open /dev/dri/card0: No such file or directory [ 41.368] (WW) Falling back to old probe method for scfb [ 41.368] scfb trace: probe start [ 41.368] scfb trace: probe done [ 41.368] (WW) VGA arbiter: cannot open kernel arbiter, no multi-card support [ 41.368] (EE) Screen 0 deleted because of no matching config section. [ 41.368] (II) UnloadModule: "modesetting" [ 41.368] (II) Loading sub module "vbe" [ 41.368] (II) LoadModule: "vbe" [ 41.368] (II) Loading /usr/local/lib/xorg/modules/libint10.so [ 41.407] (II) Module int10: vendor="X.Org Foundation" [ 41.407] compiled for 1.21.1.16, module version = 1.0.0 [ 41.407] ABI class: X.Org Video Driver, version 25.2 [ 41.407] (II) Loading sub module "int10" [ 41.407] (II) LoadModule: "int10" [ 41.407] (II) Loading /usr/local/lib/xorg/modules/libint10.so [ 41.407] (II) Module int10: vendor="X.Org Foundation" [ 41.407] compiled for 1.21.1.16, module version = 1.0.0 [ 41.407] ABI class: X.Org Video Driver, version 25.2 [ 41.407] (II) VESA(0): initializing int10 [ 41.407] (II) VESA(0): Primary V_BIOS segment is: 0xc000 [ 41.408] (II) VESA(0): VESA BIOS detected [ 41.408] (II) VESA(0): VESA VBE Version 3.0 [ 41.408] (II) VESA(0): VESA VBE Total Mem: 16384 kB [ 41.408] (II) VESA(0): VESA VBE OEM: ATI ATOMBIOS [ 41.408] (II) VESA(0): VESA VBE OEM Software Rev: 12.20 [ 41.408] (II) VESA(0): VESA VBE OEM Vendor: (C) 1988-2005, ATI Technologies Inc. [ 41.408] (II) VESA(0): VESA VBE OEM Product: -01R-00 [ 41.408] (II) VESA(0): VESA VBE OEM Product Rev: 01.00 [ 41.479] (II) VESA(0): Creating default Display subsection in Screen section "Default Screen Section" for depth/fbbpp 24/32 [ 41.479] (==) VESA(0): Depth 24, (--) framebuffer bpp 32 [ 41.479] (==) VESA(0): RGB weight 888 [ 41.479] (==) VESA(0): Default visual is TrueColor [ 41.479] (==) VESA(0): Using gamma correction (1.0, 1.0, 1.0) [ 41.479] (II) Loading sub module "ddc" [ 41.479] (II) LoadModule: "ddc" [ 41.479] (II) Module "ddc" already built-in [ 41.479] (II) VESA(0): VESA VBE DDC supported [ 41.479] (II) VESA(0): VESA VBE DDC Level 2 [ 41.479] (II) VESA(0): VESA VBE DDC transfer in appr. 1 sec. [ 41.619] (II) VESA(0): VESA VBE DDC read successfully [ 41.623] (II) VESA(0): Manufacturer: NEC Model: 6662 Serial#: 16843009 [ 41.623] (II) VESA(0): Year: 2005 Week: 30 [ 41.623] (II) VESA(0): EDID Version: 1.3 [ 41.623] (II) VESA(0): Digital Display Input [ 41.623] (II) VESA(0): Max Image Size [cm]: horiz.: 38 vert.: 30 [ 41.623] (II) VESA(0): Gamma: 2.20 [ 41.623] (II) VESA(0): DPMS capabilities: StandBy Suspend Off [ 41.623] (II) VESA(0): Supported color encodings: RGB 4:4:4 YCrCb 4:4:4 [ 41.623] (II) VESA(0): First detailed timing is preferred mode [ 41.623] (II) VESA(0): redX: 0.640 redY: 0.344 greenX: 0.299 greenY: 0.608 [ 41.623] (II) VESA(0): blueX: 0.145 blueY: 0.074 whiteX: 0.313 whiteY: 0.329 [ 41.623] (II) VESA(0): Supported established timings: [ 41.623] (II) VESA(0): 720x400@70Hz [ 41.623] (II) VESA(0): 640x480@60Hz [ 41.623] (II) VESA(0): 640x480@67Hz [ 41.623] (II) VESA(0): 640x480@72Hz [ 41.623] (II) VESA(0): 640x480@75Hz [ 41.623] (II) VESA(0): 800x600@56Hz [ 41.623] (II) VESA(0): 800x600@60Hz [ 41.623] (II) VESA(0): 800x600@72Hz [ 41.623] (II) VESA(0): 800x600@75Hz [ 41.623] (II) VESA(0): 832x624@75Hz [ 41.623] (II) VESA(0): 1024x768@60Hz [ 41.623] (II) VESA(0): 1024x768@70Hz [ 41.623] (II) VESA(0): 1024x768@75Hz [ 41.623] (II) VESA(0): 1280x1024@75Hz [ 41.623] (II) VESA(0): 1152x864@75Hz [ 41.623] (II) VESA(0): Manufacturer's mask: 0 [ 41.623] (II) VESA(0): Supported standard timings: [ 41.623] (II) VESA(0): #0: hsize: 1152 vsize 864 refresh: 75 vid: 20337 [ 41.623] (II) VESA(0): #1: hsize: 1280 vsize 960 refresh: 60 vid: 16513 [ 41.623] (II) VESA(0): #2: hsize: 1280 vsize 1024 refresh: 60 vid: 32897 [ 41.623] (II) VESA(0): Supported detailed timing: [ 41.623] (II) VESA(0): clock: 108.0 MHz Image Size: 376 x 301 mm [ 41.623] (II) VESA(0): h_active: 1280 h_sync: 1328 h_sync_end 1440 h_blank_end 1688 h_border: 0 [ 41.623] (II) VESA(0): v_active: 1024 v_sync: 1025 v_sync_end 1028 v_blanking: 1066 v_border: 0 [ 41.623] (II) VESA(0): Ranges: V min: 56 V max: 75 Hz, H min: 31 H max: 81 kHz, PixClock max 145 MHz [ 41.623] (II) VESA(0): Monitor name: LCD1970NX [ 41.623] (II) VESA(0): Serial No: 57302818YA [ 41.623] (II) VESA(0): EDID (in hex): ... [ 41.702] (II) VESA(0): Total Memory: 256 64KB banks (16384kB) [ 41.702] (II) VESA(0): : Using hsync range of 31.00-81.00 kHz [ 41.702] (II) VESA(0): : Using vrefresh range of 56.00-75.00 Hz [ 41.702] (II) VESA(0): : Using maximum pixel clock of 145.00 MHz [ 41.702] (WW) VESA(0): Unable to estimate virtual size ... [ 41.702] (II) VESA(0): Virtual size is 1280x1024 (pitch 1280) [ 41.702] (**) VESA(0): *Built-in mode "1280x1024" [ 41.702] (**) VESA(0): *Built-in mode "640x480" [ 41.702] (**) VESA(0): *Built-in mode "720x400" [ 41.702] (**) VESA(0): Display dimensions: (380, 300) mm [ 41.702] (**) VESA(0): DPI set to (85, 86) [ 41.702] (**) VESA(0): Using "Shadow Framebuffer" [ 41.702] (II) Loading sub module "shadow" [ 41.702] (II) LoadModule: "shadow" [ 41.702] (II) Loading /usr/local/lib/xorg/modules/libshadow.so [ 41.712] (II) Module shadow: vendor="X.Org Foundation" [ 41.712] compiled for 1.21.1.16, module version = 1.1.0 [ 41.712] ABI class: X.Org ANSI C Emulation, version 0.4 [ 41.712] (II) Loading sub module "fb" [ 41.712] (II) LoadModule: "fb" [ 41.712] (II) Module "fb" already built-in [ 41.712] (II) UnloadModule: "scfb" [ 41.712] (II) Unloading scfb [ 41.712] (II) Loading sub module "int10" [ 41.712] (II) LoadModule: "int10" [ 41.712] (II) Loading /usr/local/lib/xorg/modules/libint10.so [ 41.712] (II) Module int10: vendor="X.Org Foundation" [ 41.712] compiled for 1.21.1.16, module version = 1.0.0 [ 41.712] ABI class: X.Org Video Driver, version 25.2 [ 41.712] (II) VESA(0): initializing int10 [ 41.713] (II) VESA(0): Primary V_BIOS segment is: 0xc000 [ 41.713] (II) VESA(0): VESA BIOS detected [ 41.713] (II) VESA(0): VESA VBE Version 3.0 [ 41.713] (II) VESA(0): VESA VBE Total Mem: 16384 kB [ 41.713] (II) VESA(0): VESA VBE OEM: ATI ATOMBIOS [ 41.713] (II) VESA(0): VESA VBE OEM Software Rev: 12.20 [ 41.713] (II) VESA(0): VESA VBE OEM Vendor: (C) 1988-2005, ATI Technologies Inc. [ 41.713] (II) VESA(0): VESA VBE OEM Product: -01R-00 [ 41.713] (II) VESA(0): VESA VBE OEM Product Rev: 01.00 [ 41.716] (II) VESA(0): virtual address = 0x842c00000, VGAbase = 0x845400000 physical address = 0xd0000000, size = 16777216 [ 41.723] (II) VESA(0): Setting up VESA Mode 0x124 (1280x1024) [ 41.723] (II) VESA(0): VBESetVBEMode failed, mode set without customized refresh. [ 42.005] (==) VESA(0): Default visual is TrueColor [ 42.044] (==) VESA(0): Backing store enabled [ 42.045] (==) VESA(0): DPMS enabled ... (initializing extensions) [ 42.054] (II) AIGLX: Screen 0 is not DRI2 capable [ 46.099] (II) IGLX: Loaded and initialized swrast [ 46.099] (II) GLX: Initialized DRISWRAST GL provider for screen 0 [ 46.099] (II) Initializing extension XFree86-VidModeExtension [ 46.099] (II) Initializing extension XFree86-DGA [ 46.099] (II) Initializing extension XFree86-DRI [ 46.099] (II) Initializing extension DRI2 Don't know if this helps or not. Gary From nobody Tue Oct 6 06:07:32 2026 X-Original-To: freebsd-questions@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4hzQlg0TkHz6Z80s for ; Tue, 06 Oct 2026 06:07:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-questions@dino.sk) Received: from cm0.netlabit.sk (mailhost.netlabit.sk [84.245.65.72]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange x25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4hzQlf0Jmbz3GND for ; Tue, 06 Oct 2026 06:07:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-questions@dino.sk) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of freebsd-questions@dino.sk designates 84.245.65.72 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=freebsd-questions@dino.sk; dmarc=none Received: from dino.sk ([84.245.95.254]) (AUTH: LOGIN milan, TLS: TLSv1.3,256bits,TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by cm0.netlabit.sk with ESMTPSA id 0000000001173A3A.000000006AC49025.00010452; Tue, 06 Oct 2026 08:07:33 +0200 Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2026 08:07:32 +0200 From: Milan Obuch To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Cc: freebsd@dreamchaser.org Subject: Re: Where is your FreeBSD? Message-ID: <20261006080732.57345078.38715446.79530750@dino.sk> In-Reply-To: <96598c2a-e9bc-49e6-932e-5d0017141eff@dreamchaser.org> References: <40F0E96E-2996-41A0-8302-A9A11E7AA4E4@lbon.dev> <20261005234323.cb3bdb1e.freebsd@edvax.de> <96598c2a-e9bc-49e6-932e-5d0017141eff@dreamchaser.org> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.21.0 (GTK+ 2.24.33; amd64-portbld-freebsd15.0) List-Id: User questions List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-questions List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: List-Owner: Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spamd-Bar: / X-Spamd-Result: default: False [0.70 / 15.00]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:5578, ipnet:84.245.64.0/18, country:SK]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[dino.sk]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4hzQlf0Jmbz3GND On Mon, 5 Oct 2026 17:22:54 -0600 Gary Aitken wrote: > On Mon, 21 Sep 2026 22:34:36 +0200, Luigi wrote: > > I wonder, are there more FreeBSD "laptop users" or "server users=E2=80= =9D > > out there ? > > > > Just curious about your thoughts on the matter. =20 >=20 > I run fbsd on an ancient PC server, and as my daily workstation on 10 > year old home assembled hardware. Daily work includes regular office > stuff, 3d print design, photo editing, remote admin of ubuntu Out of pure curiosity, what are you using for 3D print design and photo editing? I have no experience with the former, doing some small adjustment with GIMP for the later. > servers, and the usual too much web surfing. My framework laptop runs > ubuntu, mostly because it's officially supported and the update > process has so far (4 yrs?) been pretty no-brainer. I only use the > laptop for things I don't have running on fbsd -- prusa slicer; and There is cad/PrusaSlicer in ports, does it not work for you? Again, no experience in this area, just a note. > occasionally websites I really need that don't work on my fbsd > firefox with noscript. For the original question: I started with FreeBSD long ago on the servers for internet access (simple routers with NAT, proxy, DNS and sometimes web and mail servers) around 2.2.5 or 2.2.8, my first workstation was around 2000 (laptop or notebook I do not remember exact model anymore). Regards, Milan From nobody Tue Oct 6 07:11:37 2026 X-Original-To: freebsd-questions@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4hzS9n6pfCz6cSJQ for ; Tue, 06 Oct 2026 07:11:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@qeng-ho.org) Received: from mx2.mythic-beasts.com (mx2.mythic-beasts.com [IPv6:2a00:1098:0:82:1000:0:2:1]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange secp256r1 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4hzS9m65ncz3Pvn for ; Tue, 06 Oct 2026 07:11:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@qeng-ho.org) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=qeng-ho.org header.s=mythic-beasts-k1 header.b=ZtGsh5HH; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of freebsd@qeng-ho.org designates 2a00:1098:0:82:1000:0:2:1 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=freebsd@qeng-ho.org; dmarc=none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=qeng-ho.org ; s=mythic-beasts-k1; h=From:To:Subject:Date; bh=jviUEnggA9u5bRL7WUScUd7ScRb9tS71Nu6tMO8B+k4=; b=ZtGsh5HHhnvw7O368Wmo70NbJh CGMCy0/46/B2coRRdM8BVvbc695ej+9oS6WccyXJwq26N5kxxKNNPvS2fPrfXrRhBtyKdS8pAjM3U 8qCTs7Y7GKUTiL6bB5+izvjeapPTemtr3b1yIFdyruuigaf8RjbXOM6mGBtIHe6Oa9QFAt6gIY3HY 1J0AnNZG68JBNL57SHf7gSgOBgqQhXCSeZS1NK4NIU9JGn5gMG6NuQIJ9xZeAiuNYIlFRrQcLv6Am 3KYUll0QD+fMo/t9aEna2pFNGSUxopiwSq6DRpbCUi+mJSjFcky1ceU3GSAU1AmEsqYrg/NZURDNY 6r6tA20w==; Received: by mailhub-hex-d.mythic-beasts.com with esmtpsa (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.96) (envelope-from ) id 1xDzL7-00ELX9-1V; Tue, 06 Oct 2026 08:11:53 +0100 Message-ID: <1d5652f5-8b6d-4b02-823c-964d1d592588@qeng-ho.org> Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2026 08:11:37 +0100 List-Id: User questions List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-questions List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: List-Owner: Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: Where is your FreeBSD? To: Milan Obuch , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Cc: freebsd@dreamchaser.org References: <40F0E96E-2996-41A0-8302-A9A11E7AA4E4@lbon.dev> <20261005234323.cb3bdb1e.freebsd@edvax.de> <96598c2a-e9bc-49e6-932e-5d0017141eff@dreamchaser.org> <20261006080732.57345078.38715446.79530750@dino.sk> Content-Language: en-GB From: Arthur Chance In-Reply-To: <20261006080732.57345078.38715446.79530750@dino.sk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BlackCat-Spam-Score: 9 X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.9 X-Spamd-Bar: / X-Spamd-Result: default: False [0.00 / 15.00]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; RCVD_DKIM_ARC_DNSWL_MED(-0.50)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[qeng-ho.org:s=mythic-beasts-k1]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a00:1098:0:82:1000:0:2:0/112]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED(-0.20)[2a00:1098:0:82:1000:0:2:1:from]; ONCE_RECEIVED(0.20)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:44684, ipnet:2a00:1098::/32, country:GB]; RCVD_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[qeng-ho.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[qeng-ho.org:+] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4hzS9m65ncz3Pvn On 06/10/2026 07:07, Milan Obuch wrote: > On Mon, 5 Oct 2026 17:22:54 -0600 > Gary Aitken wrote: > >> On Mon, 21 Sep 2026 22:34:36 +0200, Luigi wrote: >>> I wonder, are there more FreeBSD "laptop users" or "server users” >>> out there ? >>> >>> Just curious about your thoughts on the matter. >> >> I run fbsd on an ancient PC server, and as my daily workstation on 10 >> year old home assembled hardware. Daily work includes regular office >> stuff, 3d print design, photo editing, remote admin of ubuntu > > Out of pure curiosity, what are you using for 3D print design and photo > editing? I have no experience with the former, doing some small > adjustment with GIMP for the later. For 3D printing, which I've only just started with, I'm using OpenSCAD when designing my own parts. It seems to suit a programmer mentality. At some point I may get round to learning FreeCAD, but time is short and FreeCAD is huge. What little photo editing I do is done with Gimp, although I've been meaning to look at graphics/pinta as a lightweight alternative. > >> servers, and the usual too much web surfing. My framework laptop runs >> ubuntu, mostly because it's officially supported and the update >> process has so far (4 yrs?) been pretty no-brainer. I only use the >> laptop for things I don't have running on fbsd -- prusa slicer; and > > There is cad/PrusaSlicer in ports, does it not work for you? Again, no > experience in this area, just a note. Just sent Gary an off-list note about slicers, then saw this. I use Orca slicer rather than Prusa and it works fine *but only under FreeBSD 15*. It builds and installs under 14 but won't run successfully. I don't know about the Prusa slicer, but as Orca is derived from it I suspect the same may be true. >> occasionally websites I really need that don't work on my fbsd >> firefox with noscript. > > For the original question: I started with FreeBSD long ago on the > servers for internet access (simple routers with NAT, proxy, DNS and > sometimes web and mail servers) around 2.2.5 or 2.2.8, my first > workstation was around 2000 (laptop or notebook I do not remember exact > model anymore). > > Regards, > Milan -- The worst line of C I ever saw: #define PI 22/7 From nobody Tue Oct 6 16:43:39 2026 X-Original-To: questions@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4hzhsc4JRDz4n9wl for ; Tue, 06 Oct 2026 16:43:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mirror176@hotmail.com) Received: from SJ2PR03CU001.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-westusazolkn190120001.outbound.protection.outlook.com [IPv6:2a01:111:f403:d001::1]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange secp384r1 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "mail.protection.outlook.com", Issuer "DigiCert SHA2 Secure Server CA" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4hzhsb5hJmz4r0n for ; Tue, 06 Oct 2026 16:43:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mirror176@hotmail.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=hotmail.com header.s=selector1 header.b=smgkG4Dd; arc=pass ("microsoft.com:s=arcselector10001:i=1"); spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of mirror176@hotmail.com designates 2a01:111:f403:d001::1 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=mirror176@hotmail.com; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=hotmail.com ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector10001; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=bJPtGaDbOmVnyGDAhSe7fxNI+0y9K7fjouU0YOp3iIdUT+g3VgHV7xpSapLadTqsFP/ggTp9/0hsFW2LM4RA9e1ZeF3qTVpIEhGsQDjmmRP9VfBjUZIgkc7krT+GPvHWhXMl0RDa5Vl60a8R/z1vhzsmE53The8clOpWersRTMwPqajrLpg5QvEsK8KWnlXH6QZsJBzn847rI4pnHBvVEXoRE0zp0/mWl+DpBOPNjaxPYuKKDaq3GdQe3Vc3lvYzTpg7L6Q6iTvxF/QA0HMzo0D+s51qcxNK541yuHA2Sux8ZGxeSHZb+Z5BRUsg+kFeGLhODKwZnoEr8LlgZ/ia2w== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector10001; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-1; bh=O6R+gbGLtEPW3SjhMaRmDj4J/LGe4JRos2q8kP7WqyU=; b=qxU+RiKf8Zraa6ntlHI5uTr2dNTPR5mjTnCDG5LOWahU4UW99ZQbWcZ19/1/6Cvf1P0ostTYd5tA7VpQA6d52rep4OCpOrDzd05NZWyc4F13kdxtIuLzdGciAkT4P3SP+Ya8iOdT2N++txrOllyyfyKL8Ei9w9Nm1opNYTu3gOshmwe1zJl5kkDf0IKIu9W9TrnBHnqMP8YGDBTrgDd51kRERIgad2JXj+2vganE3JI+kHkrEQdx+Xhbtg6gmlgcJycDhMJxcykTExRCvW76+zPkqc3JndP2qnsMB1YYUhaRuHiPJSUqPwpWrGvuujByyU7LYXlmgc6eE0URZpZViw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=none; dmarc=none; dkim=none; arc=none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=hotmail.com; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=O6R+gbGLtEPW3SjhMaRmDj4J/LGe4JRos2q8kP7WqyU=; b=smgkG4Dd5PXff4qHYfXcZ1dNadF1BZo131+NWGqGhbJm8R4vE9jPEz4H5E91o5Gp0eAp0xfMYP/2zPlEgvszHFNP5yBYGlJhU5m7SzKfilfAoijmlReQi7JMvByMJ3EfkRu1A1lfvUC5gQoxlI1wDJJkHN2tLd9hd1iSgmFphOq9qfPsrfYnzUT5BVt3xqidsyK5BFb8bzIsgkHqOKR9slwS0jy60X9q+awM9UZY2J13Pwx3PGvKXqev6ym5Bb9giBYFEHNjMfwQQa5h3ZB4CGVH4BHfzSCiKBbYaJkmnWTfe0G6bVikIkLr2Ct7nRzrTMgepqSPryh9qOTeNFT/SQ== Received: from SA1PR11MB8811.namprd11.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:806:467::18) by DM3PPFF28037229.namprd11.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:f:fc00::f5f) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.21.496.15; Tue, 6 Oct 2026 16:43:42 +0000 Received: from SA1PR11MB8811.namprd11.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::5fae:75f1:3548:9369]) by SA1PR11MB8811.namprd11.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::5fae:75f1:3548:9369%5]) with mapi id 15.21.0472.016; Tue, 6 Oct 2026 16:43:42 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2026 09:43:39 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: Where is your FreeBSD? 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ARC_ALLOW(-1.00)[microsoft.com:s=arcselector10001:i=1]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[hotmail.com,none]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[hotmail.com:s=selector1]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a01:111:f403:d000::/53]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8075, ipnet:2a01:111:f000::/36, country:US]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[hotmail.com]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[hotmail.com]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2a01:111:f403:d001::1:from]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[hotmail.com:dkim]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[questions@freebsd.org]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[hotmail.com:+] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4hzhsb5hJmz4r0n On 10/5/26 20:58, Gary Aitken wrote: > On 10/5/26 17:43, Duke Normandin wrote: >> On Mon, 5 Oct 2026 17:22:54 -0600 >> Gary Aitken wrote: >> >>> On Mon, 21 Sep 2026 22:34:36 +0200, Luigi wrote: >>>> I wonder, are there more FreeBSD "laptop users" or "server users” >>>> out there ? > ... >>> I run fbsd on an ancient PC server, and as my daily workstation on 10 >>> year >>> old home assembled hardware. >> >> I'm trying to get X (fluxbox) running on FBSD-15.1 on my 2011 ASUS i7 >> laptop. >> The graphics resolution was locked at 800x600 in the console and X. Got >> the resolution issue ironed out but now I have no X-Windows. xorg >> chokes on >> `startx' with "No screens found". Any idea on how I can solve this? >> >> I have 2 graphics card in this box: Intel & nvidia. I've disabled the >> nvidia by >> choosing the applicable busID. TIA ... > > Unfortunately, no. I haven't upgraded to 15, and haven't modified my X > environment > (other than tweaking .xinitrc) in ... years? I have an old radeon HD5550 > card installed > but I have never gotten its accelerator functions to work, although that > is the card > driving my screen. Also have an old nvidia I couldn't get to work either, > so I just gave up on them. I think the HD5550 was not supported by the > driver; can't > remember what the nvidia problem was. I get by with slow graphics but > sometimes it's > painful (running FreeCAD). I had AMD (ATI) Radeon HD4870 and 4850 cards which I haven't tried again since all pulling in drm Linux drivers stuff became popular and used to be a natively written driver. If amdgpu doesn't drive your graphics then you may need to use radeon instead. I thought x11 had separate driver ports for both too and you needed to separately install x11-drivers/xf86-video-amdgpu or its xlibre counterpart accordingly though I'm not sure where the radeon one is/went or if its just bad memory on my part. If memory serves, I had to load its driver to stop it from pumping out high heat all the time and may have been required to get fan speeds to drop but I haven't tried it in so long I don't remember. Back when I tried them with the natively written drivers they had limited acceleration support but there was some. Stability at the time also wasn't great which I think some of that was a limitation of the state of the drivers. Back then it was also known that on official drivers + operating systems that Nvidia had a much better driver experience and I tried it anyway having picked them up as a great deal with a CPU but alas the subpar experience had me switch back. AMD also gave their final release for Windows as a 'very' buggy release before they abandoned support which is further made fun by them removing old driver links. I don't remember what I had to do outside the handbook instructions but there may have been requirements for that. I seem to recall last I tried that there were missing steps on the AMD side. If you only tried amdgpu then I'd try the radeon choice (or vice versa) as one supported older cards than the other. Similarly try swapping out amd with ati for the x11-drivers/xf86-video-* stuff. If you get it working, don't be lazy like me and actually open up a bugzilla report so documentation can actually be correct for your GPU; some may say its old enough to not matter but I'd say either we should remove the ports if its so old to not care or we should document it properly which in my experience hasn't even happend for new cards either (hopefully I'm wrong and they fixed it). My old Nvidia GTX570 is still what I'm stuck using today. Setting it up required I 'not' follow handbook instructions. Installed the nvidia driver from ports that was compatible (v390 is where nvidia abandoned this series of card unfortunately). The handbook steps for configuring X were always wrong and I had to run a command, if documented at all said it shouldn't be used anymore, to create an xorg.conf. Manual configuration was still appropriate as the automatics seemed a bit lacking. Screen tearing on video playback was something that I'd periodically fight with and after getting it figured out I'd have the fight come back as something would change a short time later with an update and bring it back so nvidia has given me years of screen tearing which seemed a trend of hardware that they added a few generations before it. Currently the old drivers are incompatible with a number of programs and that number is increasing. Though some programs have added requirements for newer video APIs than it supports, a number of programs seem to break which as best as I could tell was caused by grievances resulting between nvidia drivers being proprietary+mesa(?) graphics devs not wanting to handle nvidia bugs and passed it off to each and every program developer to individually deal with. At least some of this seemed caused by egl or something being only partially implemented in the driver at the time the drivers no longer receive updates. It was actually more complete in the Linux part of the FreeBSD driver if memory serves and I wondered if its possible to mix and match "some" files of the driver with a later driver that had more complete support; seems Nvidia abandons some drivers and its in a 'bad' state too. In any case, this GPU was from around the time where running it without a driver could leave fans at 100% until the driver was loaded and not all cards had fans designed for sustained 100% load so some GPUs can be damaged by booting getting stuck at a BIOS/UEFI after power comes back following an outage, you run an OS which doesn't have a driver including tools like memtest86, etc. Under FreeBSD this card is best used with UEFI booting as I found that BIOS booting required either I switch the terminals to text only or else returning to the terminals from X had messed up graphics instead of usable characters. I had a short time I got to try a readeon rx6950 or whatever the card was that was only a few generations back. Following the handbook would again not work as the handbook was lacking steps even on this modern card. After I got it working I had to again break the recommendation of not creating an X configuration since without it the GPU could not drive a monitor at its full 240Hz refresh rate (forget if it capped at 144 or 60 but it was definitely lower). I more recently switched to xlibre to try it out with the GIX570. Automatics worked much better out of the box to get a working display than xorg but it had an issue loading the non-nvidia modules instead of the nvidia ones which messed some stuff up for 'proper' support.the modules were fixed with /usr/local/etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/modules.conf: Section "Files" ModulePath "/usr/local/lib/xorg/modules/extensions/.nvidia/" ModulePath "/usr/local/lib/xorg/modules" EndSection Section "Module" Load "freetype" EndSection After that I found that screen tearing, though not eliminated, has been much less to where often its effectively eliminated and I didn't jump through any hoops to get it there. I haven't gone back and tried the older or newer AMD cards again. > I have a bunch of old xorg.conf.xxx files sitting around, but no xorg.conf; > I think it's just using dumb framebuffer defaults. > I do use a trackball that I have configured but that is done in .xinitrc > using xmodmap. > > According to /var/log/Xorg.0.log, my config is only coming from the > system default > at /usr/local/share/X11/xorg.conf.d; and there are no output configs > there -- only > input stuff; and there are no other config files listed in the log. > > What I think are relevant portions of the log: > It appears it deleted screen 0 at [41.368] and then automagically > recreated it > (see [41.479]) > > [    40.940] (==) No screen section available. Using defaults. > [    40.940] (**) |-->Screen "Default Screen Section" (0) > [    40.940] (**) |   |-->Monitor "" > [    40.957] (==) No monitor specified for screen "Default Screen Section". >         Using a default monitor configuration. > [    40.957] (**) Allowing byte-swapped clients > ... > [    41.117]    X.Org Video Driver: 25.2 > [    41.117]    X.Org XInput driver : 24.4 > [    41.117]    X.Org Server Extension : 10.0 > [    41.132] (--) PCI:*(5@0:0:0) 1002:68da:1545:5550 rev 0, Mem @ > 0xd0000000/268435456, 0xfe9e0000/131072, I/O @ 0x0000e000/256, BIO > S @ 0x????????/65536 > [    41.137] (II) LoadModule: "glx" > [    41.180] (II) Loading /usr/local/lib/xorg/modules/extensions/libglx.so > [    41.298] (II) Module glx: vendor="X.Org Foundation" > [    41.298]    compiled for 1.21.1.16, module version = 1.0.0 > [    41.298]    ABI class: X.Org Server Extension, version 10.0 > [    41.298] (==) Matched ati as autoconfigured driver 0 > [    41.298] (==) Matched modesetting as autoconfigured driver 1 > [    41.298] (==) Matched scfb as autoconfigured driver 2 > [    41.298] (==) Matched vesa as autoconfigured driver 3 > [    41.298] (==) Assigned the driver to the xf86ConfigLayout > [    41.298] (II) LoadModule: "ati" > [    41.298] (WW) Warning, couldn't open module ati > [    41.298] (EE) Failed to load module "ati" (module does not exist, 0) > [    41.298] (II) LoadModule: "modesetting" > [    41.298] (II) Loading /usr/local/lib/xorg/modules/drivers/ > modesetting_drv.so > [    41.335] (II) Module modesetting: vendor="X.Org Foundation" > [    41.335]    compiled for 1.21.1.16, module version = 1.21.1 > [    41.335]    Module class: X.Org Video Driver > [    41.335]    ABI class: X.Org Video Driver, version 25.2 > [    41.335] (II) LoadModule: "scfb" > [    41.335] (II) Loading /usr/local/lib/xorg/modules/drivers/scfb_drv.so > [    41.345] (II) Module scfb: vendor="X.Org Foundation" > [    41.345]    compiled for 1.21.1.16, module version = 0.0.5 > [    41.345]    ABI class: X.Org Video Driver, version 25.2 > [    41.345] (II) LoadModule: "vesa" > [    41.345] (II) Loading /usr/local/lib/xorg/modules/drivers/vesa_drv.so > [    41.345] (II) Module vesa: vendor="X.Org Foundation" > [    41.345]    compiled for 1.21.1.16, module version = 2.5.0 > [    41.345]    Module class: X.Org Video Driver > [    41.345]    ABI class: X.Org Video Driver, version 25.2 > [    41.345] (II) modesetting: Driver for Modesetting Kernel Drivers: kms > [    41.345] (II) scfb: driver for wsdisplay framebuffer: scfb > [    41.345] (II) VESA: driver for VESA chipsets: vesa > [    41.346] (--) Using syscons driver with X support (version 2.0) > [    41.346] (--) using VT number 9 > > [    41.368] (EE) open /dev/dri/card0: No such file or directory > [    41.368] (WW) Falling back to old probe method for modesetting > [    41.368] (EE) open /dev/dri/card0: No such file or directory > [    41.368] (WW) Falling back to old probe method for scfb > [    41.368] scfb trace: probe start > [    41.368] scfb trace: probe done > [    41.368] (WW) VGA arbiter: cannot open kernel arbiter, no multi-card > support > [    41.368] (EE) Screen 0 deleted because of no matching config section. > [    41.368] (II) UnloadModule: "modesetting" > [    41.368] (II) Loading sub module "vbe" > [    41.368] (II) LoadModule: "vbe" > [    41.368] (II) Loading /usr/local/lib/xorg/modules/libint10.so > [    41.407] (II) Module int10: vendor="X.Org Foundation" > [    41.407]    compiled for 1.21.1.16, module version = 1.0.0 > [    41.407]    ABI class: X.Org Video Driver, version 25.2 > [    41.407] (II) Loading sub module "int10" > [    41.407] (II) LoadModule: "int10" > [    41.407] (II) Loading /usr/local/lib/xorg/modules/libint10.so > [    41.407] (II) Module int10: vendor="X.Org Foundation" > [    41.407]    compiled for 1.21.1.16, module version = 1.0.0 > [    41.407]    ABI class: X.Org Video Driver, version 25.2 > [    41.407] (II) VESA(0): initializing int10 > [    41.407] (II) VESA(0): Primary V_BIOS segment is: 0xc000 > [    41.408] (II) VESA(0): VESA BIOS detected > [    41.408] (II) VESA(0): VESA VBE Version 3.0 > [    41.408] (II) VESA(0): VESA VBE Total Mem: 16384 kB > [    41.408] (II) VESA(0): VESA VBE OEM: ATI ATOMBIOS > [    41.408] (II) VESA(0): VESA VBE OEM Software Rev: 12.20 > [    41.408] (II) VESA(0): VESA VBE OEM Vendor: (C) 1988-2005, ATI > Technologies Inc. > [    41.408] (II) VESA(0): VESA VBE OEM Product: -01R-00 > [    41.408] (II) VESA(0): VESA VBE OEM Product Rev: 01.00 > [    41.479] (II) VESA(0): Creating default Display subsection in Screen > section >         "Default Screen Section" for depth/fbbpp 24/32 > [    41.479] (==) VESA(0): Depth 24, (--) framebuffer bpp 32 > [    41.479] (==) VESA(0): RGB weight 888 > [    41.479] (==) VESA(0): Default visual is TrueColor > [    41.479] (==) VESA(0): Using gamma correction (1.0, 1.0, 1.0) > [    41.479] (II) Loading sub module "ddc" > [    41.479] (II) LoadModule: "ddc" > [    41.479] (II) Module "ddc" already built-in > [    41.479] (II) VESA(0): VESA VBE DDC supported > [    41.479] (II) VESA(0): VESA VBE DDC Level 2 > [    41.479] (II) VESA(0): VESA VBE DDC transfer in appr. 1 sec. > [    41.619] (II) VESA(0): VESA VBE DDC read successfully > [    41.623] (II) VESA(0): Manufacturer: NEC  Model: 6662  Serial#: > 16843009 > [    41.623] (II) VESA(0): Year: 2005  Week: 30 > [    41.623] (II) VESA(0): EDID Version: 1.3 > [    41.623] (II) VESA(0): Digital Display Input > [    41.623] (II) VESA(0): Max Image Size [cm]: horiz.: 38  vert.: 30 > [    41.623] (II) VESA(0): Gamma: 2.20 > [    41.623] (II) VESA(0): DPMS capabilities: StandBy Suspend Off > [    41.623] (II) VESA(0): Supported color encodings: RGB 4:4:4 YCrCb 4:4:4 > [    41.623] (II) VESA(0): First detailed timing is preferred mode > [    41.623] (II) VESA(0): redX: 0.640 redY: 0.344   greenX: 0.299 > greenY: 0.608 > [    41.623] (II) VESA(0): blueX: 0.145 blueY: 0.074   whiteX: 0.313 > whiteY: 0.329 > [    41.623] (II) VESA(0): Supported established timings: > [    41.623] (II) VESA(0): 720x400@70Hz > [    41.623] (II) VESA(0): 640x480@60Hz > [    41.623] (II) VESA(0): 640x480@67Hz > [    41.623] (II) VESA(0): 640x480@72Hz > [    41.623] (II) VESA(0): 640x480@75Hz > [    41.623] (II) VESA(0): 800x600@56Hz > [    41.623] (II) VESA(0): 800x600@60Hz > [    41.623] (II) VESA(0): 800x600@72Hz > [    41.623] (II) VESA(0): 800x600@75Hz > [    41.623] (II) VESA(0): 832x624@75Hz > [    41.623] (II) VESA(0): 1024x768@60Hz > [    41.623] (II) VESA(0): 1024x768@70Hz > [    41.623] (II) VESA(0): 1024x768@75Hz > [    41.623] (II) VESA(0): 1280x1024@75Hz > [    41.623] (II) VESA(0): 1152x864@75Hz > [    41.623] (II) VESA(0): Manufacturer's mask: 0 > [    41.623] (II) VESA(0): Supported standard timings: > [    41.623] (II) VESA(0): #0: hsize: 1152  vsize 864  refresh: 75  vid: > 20337 > [    41.623] (II) VESA(0): #1: hsize: 1280  vsize 960  refresh: 60  vid: > 16513 > [    41.623] (II) VESA(0): #2: hsize: 1280  vsize 1024  refresh: 60 > vid: 32897 > [    41.623] (II) VESA(0): Supported detailed timing: > [    41.623] (II) VESA(0): clock: 108.0 MHz   Image Size:  376 x 301 mm > [    41.623] (II) VESA(0): h_active: 1280  h_sync: 1328  h_sync_end 1440 > h_blank_end 1688 h_border: 0 > [    41.623] (II) VESA(0): v_active: 1024  v_sync: 1025  v_sync_end 1028 > v_blanking: 1066 v_border: 0 > [    41.623] (II) VESA(0): Ranges: V min: 56 V max: 75 Hz, H min: 31 H > max: 81 kHz, PixClock max 145 MHz > [    41.623] (II) VESA(0): Monitor name: LCD1970NX > [    41.623] (II) VESA(0): Serial No: 57302818YA > [    41.623] (II) VESA(0): EDID (in hex): > ... > [    41.702] (II) VESA(0): Total Memory: 256 64KB banks (16384kB) > [    41.702] (II) VESA(0): : Using hsync range of > 31.00-81.00 kHz > [    41.702] (II) VESA(0): : Using vrefresh range of > 56.00-75.00 Hz > [    41.702] (II) VESA(0): : Using maximum pixel clock > of 145.00 MHz > [    41.702] (WW) VESA(0): Unable to estimate virtual size > ... > [    41.702] (II) VESA(0): Virtual size is 1280x1024 (pitch 1280) > [    41.702] (**) VESA(0): *Built-in mode "1280x1024" > [    41.702] (**) VESA(0): *Built-in mode "640x480" > [    41.702] (**) VESA(0): *Built-in mode "720x400" > [    41.702] (**) VESA(0): Display dimensions: (380, 300) mm > [    41.702] (**) VESA(0): DPI set to (85, 86) > [    41.702] (**) VESA(0): Using "Shadow Framebuffer" > [    41.702] (II) Loading sub module "shadow" > [    41.702] (II) LoadModule: "shadow" > [    41.702] (II) Loading /usr/local/lib/xorg/modules/libshadow.so > [    41.712] (II) Module shadow: vendor="X.Org Foundation" > [    41.712]    compiled for 1.21.1.16, module version = 1.1.0 > [    41.712]    ABI class: X.Org ANSI C Emulation, version 0.4 > [    41.712] (II) Loading sub module "fb" > [    41.712] (II) LoadModule: "fb" > [    41.712] (II) Module "fb" already built-in > [    41.712] (II) UnloadModule: "scfb" > [    41.712] (II) Unloading scfb > [    41.712] (II) Loading sub module "int10" > [    41.712] (II) LoadModule: "int10" > [    41.712] (II) Loading /usr/local/lib/xorg/modules/libint10.so > [    41.712] (II) Module int10: vendor="X.Org Foundation" > [    41.712]    compiled for 1.21.1.16, module version = 1.0.0 > [    41.712]    ABI class: X.Org Video Driver, version 25.2 > [    41.712] (II) VESA(0): initializing int10 > [    41.713] (II) VESA(0): Primary V_BIOS segment is: 0xc000 > [    41.713] (II) VESA(0): VESA BIOS detected > [    41.713] (II) VESA(0): VESA VBE Version 3.0 > [    41.713] (II) VESA(0): VESA VBE Total Mem: 16384 kB > [    41.713] (II) VESA(0): VESA VBE OEM: ATI ATOMBIOS > [    41.713] (II) VESA(0): VESA VBE OEM Software Rev: 12.20 > [    41.713] (II) VESA(0): VESA VBE OEM Vendor: (C) 1988-2005, ATI > Technologies Inc. > [    41.713] (II) VESA(0): VESA VBE OEM Product: -01R-00 > [    41.713] (II) VESA(0): VESA VBE OEM Product Rev: 01.00 > [    41.716] (II) VESA(0): virtual address = 0x842c00000, VGAbase = > 0x845400000 >         physical address = 0xd0000000, size = 16777216 > [    41.723] (II) VESA(0): Setting up VESA Mode 0x124 (1280x1024) > [    41.723] (II) VESA(0): VBESetVBEMode failed, mode set without > customized refresh. > [    42.005] (==) VESA(0): Default visual is TrueColor > [    42.044] (==) VESA(0): Backing store enabled > [    42.045] (==) VESA(0): DPMS enabled > ... (initializing extensions) > [    42.054] (II) AIGLX: Screen 0 is not DRI2 capable > [    46.099] (II) IGLX: Loaded and initialized swrast > [    46.099] (II) GLX: Initialized DRISWRAST GL provider for screen 0 > [    46.099] (II) Initializing extension XFree86-VidModeExtension > [    46.099] (II) Initializing extension XFree86-DGA > [    46.099] (II) Initializing extension XFree86-DRI > [    46.099] (II) Initializing extension DRI2 > > Don't know if this helps or not. > > Gary From nobody Tue Oct 6 18:32:00 2026 X-Original-To: freebsd-questions@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4hzlGg45pyz6Z1Qm for ; Tue, 06 Oct 2026 18:32:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@puchar.net) Received: from puchar.net (puchar.net [194.1.144.90]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange x25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4hzlGf15Blz4C95; Tue, 06 Oct 2026 18:32:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@puchar.net) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=puchar.net header.s=default header.b=LAoqIQuh; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of wojtek@puchar.net designates 194.1.144.90 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=wojtek@puchar.net; dmarc=none Received: Received: from 127.0.0.1 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by puchar.net (8.18.2/8.18.2) with ESMTPS id 696IW0xh077185 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 6 Oct 2026 20:32:01 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@puchar.net) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=puchar.net; s=default; t=1791311521; bh=U7B20WHicdQBTCkLlzxtSbKMySfPvZ5UsbdWqeHbF4k=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References; b=LAoqIQuhgovrjcUse2qfXrWHnXEuCzp7gtOqcPNRP9KRjlZ2X3Ts/ZEtuXJxWu/fI XBy43Ke1HHLWlOPsBOH84zJHeFhCMYUBf1o2UmUc/vGCwd6MaxVjmRNnRP8icDhjcq pfUNe8Thglk0G3obCDGU3QFJw2J8IDHZ+SYiE0S4= Received: from wojtek.intra (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.intra (8.18.1/8.18.1) with ESMTP id 696IW0DH016516; Tue, 6 Oct 2026 20:32:00 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@puchar.net) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.intra (8.18.1/8.18.1/Submit) with ESMTP id 696IW0i1016513; Tue, 6 Oct 2026 20:32:00 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@puchar.net) X-Authentication-Warning: wojtek.intra: wojtek owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2026 20:32:00 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Adrian Chadd cc: John Levine , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: what exactly that message mean? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <61e8037-e489-616-1553-7b525734cf3@puchar.net> References: <119h6ed$fiu$2@gal.iecc.com> List-Id: User questions List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-questions List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: List-Owner: Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="3974694515-571434475-1791311520=:16512" X-Spamd-Bar: + X-Spamd-Result: default: False [1.50 / 15.00]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; CTYPE_MIXED_BOGUS(1.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[puchar.net:s=default]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/mixed,text/plain]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:43476, ipnet:194.1.144.0/24, country:PL]; MISSING_XM_UA(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[puchar.net]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[194.1.144.90:from]; HAS_XAW(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RECEIVED_HELO_LOCALHOST(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[puchar.net:+] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4hzlGf15Blz4C95 This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. --3974694515-571434475-1791311520=:16512 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT > I just looked at the code in sys/vm/swap_pager.c .  > > It prints it after a 20 second sleep waiting for the read to complete. > thank you. Seems like SSD stall. --3974694515-571434475-1791311520=:16512-- From nobody Tue Oct 6 19:15:48 2026 X-Original-To: freebsd-questions@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4hzmFD268Sz6Z5B7 for ; Tue, 06 Oct 2026 19:16:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@dreamchaser.org) Received: from ns.dreamchaser.org (ns.dreamchaser.org [66.109.141.57]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange x25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature ECDSA (prime256v1) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "discoveriesinwood.com", Issuer "YE1" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4hzmFC39VBz4MNF for ; Tue, 06 Oct 2026 19:15:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@dreamchaser.org) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of freebsd@dreamchaser.org designates 66.109.141.57 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=freebsd@dreamchaser.org; dmarc=none Received: from [192.168.151.122] (breakaway.dreamchaser.org [192.168.151.122]) by ns.dreamchaser.org (8.18.1/8.18.1) with ESMTP id 696JFmsM082216; Tue, 6 Oct 2026 13:15:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from freebsd@dreamchaser.org) Message-ID: <199e0bda-fd0d-4d94-ba2d-ab2642e6febb@dreamchaser.org> Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2026 13:15:48 -0600 List-Id: User questions List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-questions List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: List-Owner: Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Reply-To: freebsd@dreamchaser.org Subject: Re: Where is your FreeBSD? Content-Language: en-US To: Milan Obuch , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <40F0E96E-2996-41A0-8302-A9A11E7AA4E4@lbon.dev> <20261005234323.cb3bdb1e.freebsd@edvax.de> <96598c2a-e9bc-49e6-932e-5d0017141eff@dreamchaser.org> <20261006080732.57345078.38715446.79530750@dino.sk> From: Gary Aitken In-Reply-To: <20261006080732.57345078.38715446.79530750@dino.sk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Greylist: inspected by milter-greylist-4.6.4 (ns.dreamchaser.org [192.168.151.101]); Tue, 06 Oct 2026 13:15:50 -0600 (MDT) for IP:'192.168.151.122' DOMAIN:'breakaway.dreamchaser.org' HELO:'[192.168.151.122]' FROM:'freebsd@dreamchaser.org' RCPT:'' X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.6.4 (ns.dreamchaser.org [192.168.151.101]); Tue, 06 Oct 2026 13:15:50 -0600 (MDT) X-Spamd-Bar: / X-Spamd-Result: default: False [0.90 / 15.00]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; ONCE_RECEIVED(0.20)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; ASN(0.00)[asn:21947, ipnet:66.109.128.0/19, country:US]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_ADDR_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd@dreamchaser.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[dreamchaser.org]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; REPLYTO_DOM_NEQ_TO_DOM(0.00)[] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4hzmFC39VBz4MNF On 10/6/26 00:07, Milan Obuch wrote: > On Mon, 5 Oct 2026 17:22:54 -0600 > Gary Aitken wrote: >> I run fbsd on an ancient PC server, and as my daily workstation on 10 >> year old home assembled hardware. Daily work includes regular office >> stuff, 3d print design, photo editing, remote admin of ubuntu > > Out of pure curiosity, what are you using for 3D print design and photo > editing? I have no experience with the former, doing some small > adjustment with GIMP for the later. I use FreeCAD for 3d design. I use darktable for processing raw image files, then sometimes GIMP for things I haven't figured out to do / which aren't possible in darktable. >> servers, and the usual too much web surfing. My framework laptop runs >> ubuntu, mostly because it's officially supported and the update >> process has so far (4 yrs?) been pretty no-brainer. I only use the >> laptop for things I don't have running on fbsd -- prusa slicer; and > > There is cad/PrusaSlicer in ports, does it not work for you? Again, no > experience in this area, just a note. Last time I tried (probably a year ago) I couldn't get it to work; as noted I think I need to upgrade to get it to work. 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R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[hotmail.com:s=selector1]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a01:111:f403:d000::/53]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8075, ipnet:2a01:111:f000::/36, country:US]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[hotmail.com]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[hotmail.com]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2a01:111:f403:d10c::1:from]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[hotmail.com:dkim]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[questions@freebsd.org]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[hotmail.com:+] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4hzmdX39DRz4Qq6 On 9/21/26 13:34, Luigi wrote: > Hello everybody > > > I got into the FreeBSD world only few months ago and subscribed to this mailing list then. > > The asked questions all seem to relate to FreeBSD installs on personal laptops. I see issues about USB handling, Firefox, all the sort of thing you usually don’t care on a server. Sometimes people forget but Firefox doesn't support FreeBSD and the porting efforts that bring it here have their limits. There is a message presented to the user during install as a result which covers some common limitations. I don't care much about Widevine dependent pages and I don't have a webcam or mic on the computer at the moment so don't worry about issues related to them at the moment. Even on Windows, sometimes a Chromium browser is required. > I personally own a server running FreeBSD with multiple jails and bhyve virtual machines. My whole homelab is there, my laptop isn’t. > > I wonder, are there more FreeBSD "laptop users" or "server users” out there ? I know some use it on laptops but I assume that so many laptops have issues with wifi, graphics, and power management that I'd assume people usually go to a different operating system rather than try to work around any such limitations once observed. I setup a laptop with FreeBSD for an ex girlfriend many years ago when she didn't have her recovery discs yet and needed to get her computer working for school after a drive failure. With my help she was able to use it mostly okay and she replaced it with another computer later without having reinstalling Windows on it. I assume hibernation didn't work but never tried and getting its intel graphics working back then was a messy process. CD burning was an easier process (I assume I can call copy+paste of commands from the handbook as she did it just fine, if not there was k3b) and k3b made burning mixed audio CDs with consistent audio level easy at a price of $0 whereas software that came on it and some paid stuff I had access to then didn't offer that. I helped mom and dad get nice+powerful laptops a few years ago; they have killer (=intel now) wifi cards that I assume are still not supported and don't expect a change on those cards anytime soon. I had dad dual booting Windows and FreeBSD on desktop years ago and his plan was to leave Microsoft behind once he didn't need it for work. Now he is on Windows only but with the BS of Win10, and further changes on 11 he may want to look at alternatives again so I should find out how Diablo3 & 4 work under Wine on FreeBSD or Linux. I got him over to Thunderbird for email years ago when he got irritated that he wasn't allowed to have the same Microsoft email client on his XP desktop (later 7) and Vista laptop; did the same for numerous family members. I assume no issue with dad doing email and browsing on FreeBSD if we were to reattempt it but I don't know if his GPU is a good or bad match with it though he does get to use the next generation of Nvidia drivers. With the amount of hard drive space he has I doubt he would want to try dualbooting because he has to choose what to 'give up' for old collected videos and such. > Just curious about your thoughts on the matter. Not perfect but overall mostly acceptable for my desktop experience. What is disliked has not been a big enough deal to drive me away to look into alternatives again. Many other people could tolerate it if they had someone to help them get through it or 'maybe' if they had no other choices. Once hardware support or required program support is lacking its a quick reason to pick another choice. A friend I respected on their use and way on computers was using it but wouldn't explain anything about why. He handed me a copy of 4.11 or so on disc and I ended up looking into it myself in 2004 and changed my Slackware system to also have that on a drive starting with somewhere in 5 (5.2.1 sounds familiar but not sure it was my 'first'). Its been on my desktop ever since. "I" have made a few mistakes that lead to me having to restore from backup as the only practical solution but otherwise I haven't had to reinstall since then. Most of the time I've been on -stable branches. As for being able to do everything I'd want, that's a "nope". Some bugs have had me nearly switch up my configuration, if not move to a new OS: 15.1 has a bug where idle processes become higher priority than normal processes (D57829 is supposed to restore the old behavior but was not backported to 15.1 after the MFC timeframe), Several 13.x releases had ZFS ARC bugs that made my system nearly unusable at times, I think 7 or so had some rough transition which was maybe related to audio but I forget now. Audio makes a loud 'pop' during boot which I thought I had set something to turn down audio on shutdown/startup and only turn it up again later to fix it but forget if I got that working or not at some point though its definitely not now; I reboot so infrequently that I don't think much of it and I have headphones plugged into speakers that get all the audio directed to them and I don't normally wear them during boot/reboot. I've had issues with some things not working over the years. I remember family thinking it wasn't usable to have a system that couldn't play youtube videos on the website back when youtube was far less popular and required flash; I could have fixed it but having all flash banner ads broken by default was a more desirable ]experience than a working youtube and playing video in browsers was a horrible experience (still is but its MUCH better). I think I used browser addons at the time to download videos for offline viewing through a non-crappy media player when I wanted it to work. When I moved over to FreeBSD I was doing music stuff in college for at least another year. I never got my electronic piano working through MIDI at the time but then moved and didn't have an easy way to get it by my computer in the next place; haven't reattempted it but I've heard only a few years back that MIDI did eventually work its way into FreeBSD. Similarly I lost access to rosegarden which was a very outdated port but didn't care much without the MIDI hookup to my piano. I think that software has since been updated. I lost access to cinelerra which became an off-again/on-again effort periodically to port it. I had it working good enough I did use it to help friends make some videos. Yuri eventually created a port that reached the ports tree for the gg fork while mine was the cv fork I had worked on; his was purged as part of the python2 purging effort though an update was available to make it use python3 at the time. I haven't reattempted it since but need to review my work vs that work to find out if any of my patches would apply as I had fixed bugs in the program and not just made porting-necessary changes. Similarly I've struggled to port a few other things: replicatorg (working though port could use work) and a reprap program (think it was working but didn't have good support for mine) for my 3D printer, mindustry (haven't reached a state where it builds), starruler2/openstarruler (builds but doesn't launch properly), simutrans-extended (works but needed an update and port needs refinement), auteria (it used to have a Linux, and after my asking a FreeBSD client, our community mostly fell apart as we went on to other things and its windows only now), I tried to get xcas ported but a while ago without much success, and tried to get some old pocket pc software going with mixed results long ago. I've put some effort into fixing up a few ports I thought could be done better but often I don't go far enough to reach a state where I think my work is publicly ready. Git should help organize any such effort but I feel like my lack of knowledge of how to properly use it causes too many unnecessary slowdowns/issues and I don't trust that I'd not make a mistake so at times I have to make a copy of the work as a backup which its supposed to eliminate the need for a backup under that reason. My computer is so old and slow now that it makes building ports of my own and the main tree a rather miserable step. I've still helped fix a number of bugs with ports over the years through bugzilla PRs and private emails to maintainers but have a few more I need to get out. As a gamer, Windows has been the go-to choice though I used to use a different machine back when I did regular gaming. Some games in Wine had performance issues and graphics bugs but its been a few years since I tried and I heard things are a lot better both with Wine on FreeBSD and Wine in general so I expect I need to try again someday. There were some things that Wine could run under Linux but not FreeBSD but I heard some of the bigger barriers there are no longer still present. I wouldn't be surprised to see things be at the point of minor difficulty for me to get starcraft 1 (used to be too slow) &2 (had graphics issues that are likely resolved and think it was performance that made me skip it), warcraft3 (have it but didn't try in Wine), diablo2 (have it but didn't try in wine) &3 (had graphics issues making a gentle breeze become a hurricane), or overwatch (didn't try in wine) working. I'd guess that fez, celeste, noita, hollowknight, and rainworld are worth a try too. I still have a copy of WordPerfect 6.1 (Wine failed to run it) I acquired from family and kept it because Microsoft Word's grammar checker was worse+buggy and openoffice/libreoffice don't have a grammar checker (they added an API but only thing I remember that used it was languagetool and that project specifically did not want to become a grammar checker last I looked into it before they started replacing local engine with cloud based AI engine) and I didn't get abiword's grammar checker working for more than highlight what it thought didn't match structure it saw before but couldn't explain why or recommend a fix. WordPerfect is reason enough to keep an old copy of Windows thrown into a virtual machine or PC emulator but I otherwise would prefer LibreOffice over other office suites (used StarOffice/OpenOffice even when I had a copy of Microsoft Office available) but if I did any serious documentation work I'd rather use tex or other comparable tooling instead of a WYSIWYG editor. I've done stuff to rip DVDs to my computer with good results on FreeBSD but my bluray efforts used Windows with a few different programs. I haven't tried makemkv from the ports tree but if/when I have a bluray drive in this computer again (bound to happen) I may give it a spin to see if I can use it here. On Windows I appreciated anydvd's non-copying features too which at this point I think the next closest step for enjoyment will require ripping the discs whereas I could use it to modify playback without ripping to be enjoyable. I have no interest in the 'product as a service' model of modern media streaming services and as a mostly Firefox user I haven't even taken the time to get Widevine setup so even YouTube's "watch with ads" videos are unplayable here; I'm okay with that but I know some would not be. In 2002 I got a computer with XP which I was going to dual boot Linux on and after owning it a few months XP required reinstalling from recovery discs 'again' so I put Linux on single boot figuring I'd just remove it or dual boot if it didn't work out but it did for 'most' things. 2004 I tried FreeBSD as dualboot which fixed a number of issues I had with Linux performance and the ports tree saved me a lot of work where under Linux I was already crudely writing scripts to download+build+install a few different programs + alsa drivers. I accidentally had a bad dd command overwrite part of the Linux install and I just shrugged my shoulders as I was mostly content with my FreeBSD experience without dual booting it. 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DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[hotmail.com,none]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[hotmail.com:s=selector1]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:52.103.0.0/17:c]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[hotmail.com:dkim]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8075, ipnet:52.96.0.0/12, country:US]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[hotmail.com]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[hotmail.com]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[52.103.2.20:from]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[questions@freebsd.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[52.103.2.20:from]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[hotmail.com:+] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4hzmh54ZHkz4S7j On 10/5/26 23:07, Milan Obuch wrote: > On Mon, 5 Oct 2026 17:22:54 -0600 > Gary Aitken wrote: > >> On Mon, 21 Sep 2026 22:34:36 +0200, Luigi wrote: >>> I wonder, are there more FreeBSD "laptop users" or "server users” >>> out there ? >>> >>> Just curious about your thoughts on the matter. >> >> I run fbsd on an ancient PC server, and as my daily workstation on 10 >> year old home assembled hardware. Daily work includes regular office >> stuff, 3d print design, photo editing, remote admin of ubuntu > > Out of pure curiosity, what are you using for 3D print design and photo > editing? I have no experience with the former, doing some small > adjustment with GIMP for the later. What little 3d print design I had done was also done on openscad. I had worked on porting it either before it existed or when it was buggy at some point when it was much earlier along. FreeCAD and others likely work and even blender can be used for CAD though that's not really a workflow its built for but I remember an extensive tutorial for modeling a bearing or something with precision in blender being around. >> servers, and the usual too much web surfing. My framework laptop runs >> ubuntu, mostly because it's officially supported and the update >> process has so far (4 yrs?) been pretty no-brainer. I only use the >> laptop for things I don't have running on fbsd -- prusa slicer; and > > There is cad/PrusaSlicer in ports, does it not work for you? Again, no > experience in this area, just a note. PrusaSlicer doesn't work with some older GPUs. My Nvidia GTX570 only got graphics driver support up to 390 which was buggy with some more modern graphics stuff; think it seemed related to nvidia releasing it with a partially written egl implementation last I looked into it and the opensource graphics devs didn't want to fix it at the graphics libraries so each program has to individually become aware of and fix it on its own. I think PrusaSlicer had moved onto a newer opengl that my GPU doesn't support. My printer being a MakerBot Thing-O-Matic used the older ReplicatorG software. I had worked on porting it and though I had something I could use I didn't feel like the port was in a state that was ports-tree-worthy. Over time the project died but a fork had worked on improving the software and printer firmware under the sailfish fork. I think 0040r34 was the last version I got of that before my printer got disconnected and put in storage for 'reasons' and I never got it back and up properly since. That program used skeinforge as its slicer which was written in python2 and was horrifically slow without using pypy to run it (about a 7x increase or so). With the efforts to purge all python2 ports and removal even of pypy from the tree since it too used python2 I figured me committing such a port would have been the opposite of appreciated; the python code is not required to use ReplicatorG other than for slicing so it may still serve a purpose but its only to support old printers. I'd have to see if 'any' old links still work, archives of them work, or if I have to host it all myself up on github or something as I think the internet tried to let most all of that software chain die off. There is software that is supposed to convert other slicer output to the binary/compressed format my printer needs it in but I had yet to get a working setup in PrusaSlicer with the conversion step to properly output to control my printer. Without being able to launch PrusaSlicer on my computer anymore that got put aside for now. >> occasionally websites I really need that don't work on my fbsd >> firefox with noscript. > > For the original question: I started with FreeBSD long ago on the > servers for internet access (simple routers with NAT, proxy, DNS and > sometimes web and mail servers) around 2.2.5 or 2.2.8, my first > workstation was around 2000 (laptop or notebook I do not remember exact > model anymore). 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Wed, 07 Oct 2026 04:53:05 -0700 (PDT) List-Id: User questions List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-questions List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: List-Owner: Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <40F0E96E-2996-41A0-8302-A9A11E7AA4E4@lbon.dev> In-Reply-To: From: Alejandro Imass Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2026 07:52:53 -0400 X-Gm-Features: AclHuK_nQHksyYIPYRZxv-EnpVkfNgUnbjutdipOAIcBZF8t7rAVOcdYQ67_tT0 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Where is your FreeBSD? To: Dale Scott Cc: Luigi , questions@freebsd.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000000f5242065d3ec237" X-Spamd-Bar: / X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-0.50 / 15.00]; ARC_ALLOW(-1.00)[google.com:s=arc-20260327:i=1]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[yabarana-com.20251104.gappssmtp.com:s=20251104]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2001:4860:4864::/56]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2001:4860:4864::/48, country:US]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; MISSING_XM_UA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2001:4860:4864:20::2e:from]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[questions@freebsd.org]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[yabarana.com]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[questions@freebsd.org]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[yabarana-com.20251104.gappssmtp.com:+] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4j0BMr6SWwz4lh4 --0000000000000f5242065d3ec237 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Sep 22, 2026 at 2:57=E2=80=AFPM Dale Scott wro= te: > On 2026-09-21 14:34, Luigi wrote: > > > I wonder, are there more FreeBSD "laptop users" or "server users" out > > there ? > > Welcome to the FreeBSD community! My feeling is that there are far more > servers using FreeBSD than personal laptops and that the majority of > FreeBSD laptop users are also managing FreeBSD servers. > > Idem. > I have had a public facing FreeBSD server since 7.2 when I abandoned > Linux because I was spending more time keeping up with Linux than > getting actual work done. > > Wow. This is such a coincidence. This is almost exactly when we abandoned Linux for server work as well! We had tons of issues on Linux under high load bc the default VM settings are way too overoptimistic, and it's very hard to fine-tune. IIRC we switched around the tail-end of FreeBSD 6 but quickly changed to 7. What our documented experiments showed: if you fully loaded a Linux box (IIRC, a Debian system with Kernel 2.24 at the time) and forced it to use 90% of its swap, Linux remained unstable and required a reboot after the load was removed. On the identical hardware, we removed the disk drive and installed the identical stack with FreeBSD and ran the identical load tests, and FreeBSD recovered every time. In fact in later tests we pushed FBSD to 100% of swap and it still recovered when the load was removed. The second reason we switched to FBSD was the upgrades. Generally speaking FreeBSD upgrades are flawless, PROVIDED you keep you systems updated and upgrade more or less on the FBSD release schedule. If you upgrade all the minors, upgrades are basically seamless. The third reason we switched to FBSD was the Jail system. At the time we used EzJail and were doing things in 2006 that I only saw later with Docker 6 years later. Today we use BastilleBSD. Our current direction is to help in the effort for a native k8s data plane on FBSD that leverages the Jail system. This will take some time, but FBSD is naturally the better choice for bare metal k8s. In the meantime, bhyve helps us fill some of those gaps. So again, FBSD beats Linux in every measure. However my laptops (a collection of corporate castoffs) run Windows and > Linux so I'm not spending time managing them and getting peripherals to > work. My newest laptop uses Windows and is my primary dev machine > [...] Idem. But in our case we use macOS precisely because it was largely based on FBSD. Best, --=20 Alex > --0000000000000f5242065d3ec237 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Tue, Sep 22,= 2026 at 2:57=E2=80=AFPM Dale Scott <dale@dalescott.net> wrote:
On 2026-09-21 14:34, Luigi wrote:

> I wonder, are there more FreeBSD "laptop users" or "ser= ver users" out
> there ?

Welcome to the FreeBSD community! My feeling is that there are far more servers using FreeBSD than personal laptops and that the majority of
FreeBSD laptop users are also managing FreeBSD servers.


Idem.
=C2=A0
I have had a public facing FreeBSD server since 7.2 when I abandoned
Linux because I was spending more time keeping up with Linux than
getting actual work done.


Wow. This is such a coincidence. This = is almost exactly=C2=A0when we abandoned=C2=A0Linux for server work as well= ! We had tons of issues on Linux under high load bc the default VM settings= are way too overoptimistic, and it's very hard to fine-tune. IIRC we s= witched around the tail-end of FreeBSD 6 but quickly changed to 7.
What=C2=A0our documented experiments showed: if you fully loaded a Linux = box (IIRC, a Debian system with Kernel 2.24 at the time) and forced it to u= se 90% of its swap, Linux remained unstable and required a reboot after the= load was removed. On the identical hardware, we removed the disk drive and= installed the identical stack with FreeBSD and ran the identical load test= s, and FreeBSD recovered every time. In fact in later tests we pushed FBSD = to 100% of swap and it still recovered when the load was removed.

The second reason we switched to FBSD was the upgrades. Gen= erally speaking FreeBSD upgrades are flawless, PROVIDED you keep you system= s updated and upgrade more or less on the FBSD release schedule. If you upg= rade all the minors, upgrades are basically seamless.

<= div>The third reason we switched to FBSD was the Jail system. At the time w= e used EzJail and were doing things in 2006 that I only saw later with Dock= er 6 years later. Today we use BastilleBSD. Our current direction is to hel= p in the effort for a native k8s data plane on FBSD that leverages the Jail= system. This will take some time, but FBSD is naturally the better choice = for bare metal k8s. In the meantime, bhyve helps us fill some of those gaps= . So again, FBSD beats Linux in every measure.

However my laptops (a collection of corporate castoffs) run Windows and Linux so I'm not spending time managing them and getting peripherals to=
work. My newest laptop uses Windows and is my primary dev machine

[...]

Idem. But in our= case we use macOS precisely because it was largely based on FBSD.
=C2=A0
Best,

--=C2=A0
Alex


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Wed, 07 Oct 2026 05:09:03 -0700 (PDT) List-Id: User questions List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-questions List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: List-Owner: Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <40F0E96E-2996-41A0-8302-A9A11E7AA4E4@lbon.dev> In-Reply-To: From: Alejandro Imass Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2026 08:08:51 -0400 X-Gm-Features: AclHuK_GhTotw2CXwEprntv2hNmYTMmU8iPH6KL_IrpwgjgTouUDmfoCGUu_L3Q Message-ID: Subject: Re: AW: Where is your FreeBSD? To: Wojciech Puchar Cc: "markus.hoenicka@mhoenicka.de" , Luigi , "questions@freebsd.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000029f73d065d3efb2a" X-Spamd-Bar: / X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-0.50 / 15.00]; ARC_ALLOW(-1.00)[google.com:s=arc-20260327:i=1]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2001:4860:4864::/56]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[yabarana-com.20251104.gappssmtp.com:s=20251104]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2001:4860:4864::/48, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; MISSING_XM_UA(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2001:4860:4864:20::35:from]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[yabarana.com]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[questions@freebsd.org]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[questions@freebsd.org]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[yabarana-com.20251104.gappssmtp.com:+] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4j0BkB080Gz4ncS --00000000000029f73d065d3efb2a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Sep 23, 2026 at 9:03=E2=80=AFAM Wojciech Puchar = wrote: > > software provided by my employer (medical center with elevated data > security requirements). > > According to my experience running FreeBSD on a workstation or laptop > isn't a big deal unless > > you need to have the latest hardware. I run affordable pre-owned laptop= s > (3 or more years ) > > and didn't run into any problems that the web didn't know how to fix > already. > Most imporantly lower cost laptops (new or used) doesn't have fancy and > mostly useless hardware like high-end GPU, runs longer on battery and mos= t > likely FreeBSD supports all hardware. Love this ! In fact, I have been thinking of completely re-evaluating my computer usage paradigm. I know it sounds insane but there were text-based systems that were in fact superior to anything developed afterwards. I.e. we abandoned certain paradigms because Windows forced the Xerox-PARC Smalltalk GUI paradigm on the world, after they copied it (badly) from Apple (The Mac) who had in turn, copied it from Xerox. But people forget that some people took these same ideas and developed alternative userland paradigms. A great example is Robert Carr whe he developed "Framework" for Ashton-Tate. Not very many people I know actually used Framework on a daily basis, but those of us who did, understand that Carr had stumbled onto something that I particularly never saw again. I have a great story in this regard, but don't want to digress this note. My point is that in this AI frenzy era, perhaps it is time to go back in time, and re-evaluate some of these lost branches of computing and maybe branch off from one of them to turn this on its head. IMHO the current userland computer paradigm has peaked and it's only downhill from here. I think we need to go back to basics. Again I know that a text-based UI on top of something like FBSD sounds insane, but it's really not. I have some ideas but I don't yet have time/budget to fully explore them. Best, --=20 Alex --00000000000029f73d065d3efb2a Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Wed, Sep 23,= 2026 at 9:03=E2=80=AFAM Wojciech Puchar <wojtek@puchar.net> wrote:
> software provided by my employer (medical cent= er with elevated data security requirements).=C2=A0
> According to my experience running FreeBSD on a workstation or laptop = isn't a big deal unless
> you need to have the latest hardware. I run affordable pre-owned lapto= ps (3 or more years )
> and didn't run into any problems that the web didn't know how = to fix already.
Most imporantly lower cost laptops (new or used) doesn't have fancy and=
mostly useless hardware like high-end GPU, runs longer on battery and most =
likely FreeBSD supports all hardware.

Love = this ! In fact, I have been thinking of completely re-evaluating my compute= r usage paradigm.=C2=A0 I know it sounds insane but there were text-based s= ystems that were in fact superior to anything developed=C2=A0afterwards. I.= e. we abandoned=C2=A0certain paradigms because Windows forced the Xerox-PAR= C Smalltalk GUI paradigm on the world, after they copied it (badly) from Ap= ple (The Mac) who had in turn, copied it from Xerox.

But people forget that some people took these same ideas and developed a= lternative userland paradigms. A great example is Robert Carr whe he develo= ped "Framework" for Ashton-Tate. Not very many people I know actu= ally used Framework on a daily basis, but those of us who did, understand t= hat Carr had stumbled onto something that I particularly never saw again. I= have a great story in this regard, but don't want to digress this note= .

My point is that in this AI frenzy era, perhaps = it is time to go back in time, and re-evaluate some of these lost branches = of computing and maybe branch off from one of them to turn this on its head= . IMHO the current userland computer paradigm has peaked and it's only = downhill from here. I think we need to go back to basics. Again I know that= a text-based UI on top of something like FBSD sounds insane, but it's = really not. I have some ideas but I don't yet have time/budget to fully= explore them.

Best,

--= =C2=A0
Alex

--00000000000029f73d065d3efb2a-- From nobody Wed Oct 7 19:43:21 2026 X-Original-To: questions@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4j0NpX0DhSz4nF23 for ; Wed, 07 Oct 2026 19:43:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@puchar.net) Received: from puchar.net (puchar.net [194.1.144.90]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange x25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4j0NpV60vdz4xrG for ; Wed, 07 Oct 2026 19:43:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@puchar.net) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=puchar.net header.s=default header.b="l1pNH/iW"; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of wojtek@puchar.net designates 194.1.144.90 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=wojtek@puchar.net; dmarc=none Received: Received: from 127.0.0.1 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by puchar.net (8.18.2/8.18.2) with ESMTPS id 697JhMh2086086 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 7 Oct 2026 21:43:23 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@puchar.net) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=puchar.net; s=default; t=1791402203; bh=afSRNrVQXqrQkDXz6PbFRiaeHPvcClhorXhve8FrlH8=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References; b=l1pNH/iWGhuHZUq8duu+nN8npGjCP5qFIWsM5W9c0ACP6Ncufz6kbZ9HIFvam/eKl 1Eu7yo/PyH/uP8nlYfvqPaclzavkEtSoTl7ibfHmLLI4chO/008t485LTz2isFgGg4 XqvA+WsaIhJ2Nxfej4hBGHF3xugPV7qLYCN/DYxg= Received: from wojtek.intra (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.intra (8.18.1/8.18.1) with ESMTP id 697JhMjv024359; Wed, 7 Oct 2026 21:43:22 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@puchar.net) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.intra (8.18.1/8.18.1/Submit) with ESMTP id 697JhLvJ024356; Wed, 7 Oct 2026 21:43:21 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@puchar.net) X-Authentication-Warning: wojtek.intra: wojtek owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2026 21:43:21 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Alejandro Imass cc: "markus.hoenicka@mhoenicka.de" , Luigi , "questions@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: AW: Where is your FreeBSD? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <23d96e89-f4f3-4e9e-3118-2f5153ea1aa7@puchar.net> References: <40F0E96E-2996-41A0-8302-A9A11E7AA4E4@lbon.dev> List-Id: User questions List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-questions List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: List-Owner: Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="3974694515-1341460863-1791402202=:24355" X-Spamd-Bar: + X-Spamd-Result: default: False [1.50 / 15.00]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; CTYPE_MIXED_BOGUS(1.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[puchar.net:s=default]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/mixed,text/plain]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[puchar.net]; ASN(0.00)[asn:43476, ipnet:194.1.144.0/24, country:PL]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; MISSING_XM_UA(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[194.1.144.90:from]; HAS_XAW(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RECEIVED_HELO_LOCALHOST(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[questions@freebsd.org]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[puchar.net:+] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4j0NpV60vdz4xrG This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. --3974694515-1341460863-1791402202=:24355 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT > Love this ! In fact, I have been thinking of completely re-evaluating my computer usage > paradigm.  I know it sounds insane but there were text-based systems that were in fact > superior to anything developed afterwards. I.e. we abandoned certain paradigms because > Windows forced the Xerox-PARC Smalltalk GUI paradigm on the world, after they copied it > (badly) from Apple (The Mac) who had in turn, copied it from Xerox. true. --3974694515-1341460863-1791402202=:24355--